What do I have?

People's Cowboy · #1 04-17-2005, 03:40 PM

I am an electric player that has recently started playing uprights. To start I got myself an Antonius to make sure this is something I really wanted to pursue. And I do.

I've recently come into the possession of a 3-string instrument that I at first thought may have been a "church bass". But I've done further research to find that it isn't a church bass- for it is way to large.

I took it to the Cincinnati Bass Cellar- they are pretty sure it's not a church bass because of the size- it's a 5/8 they think.

My needs are two-fold:

1) To find out what it is that I own.

By all accounts this is an older instrument. It has seen some repairs.
I want to know what it is before I decide what to do with it.

2) What to do with it. My first inclination is to repair it as is and play it as a 3-string. But that begs other questions- tuning, string size, how I authentic I should get with repair parts.

Can anyone help me determine what it is that I own? Here are some images of this bass:

Ben Joella · #2 04-17-2005, 05:01 PM

IMO I would not see much value in a 3 string. Four strings is pretty much standard and would save you from conversion costs down the road if you or a buyer wanted four strings. It would make a great little solo or chamber size bass.

To my eyes and from the limited pictures, I think it looks Czech. What did the folks at the Bass Cellar say?

People's Cowboy · #3 04-17-2005, 05:51 PM

They were very unsure- but said they thought it might be German. And they estimated somewhere in the late 1800s. But they didn't say much more than that.

I can't afford to have the work done on it that it needs presently, maybe they could tell more if they opened it?

Silversorcerer · #4 04-17-2005, 07:33 PM

The fingerboard and tail piece are interesting. What kind of wood does that look like close up? Light wood is unusual.

Ben Joella · #5 04-17-2005, 08:25 PM

As for the tuner plates. Have you looked on the inside of the scroll to see if it has always been a three string bass? The plates may be covering up some evidence of previous tuners.

prelims222 · #6 04-17-2005, 09:48 PM

Neat bass.

I'm inclined to doubt its germanic origins, but thats me. I could see some kind of American school of maker - who, I coulnd't guess. The boss of the scroll has that prescott-like robustness, and the pegbox and scroll are heading back on more of an incine than you see in most german instruments.

Whatever it is, when you decide to restore it, do so as four stringer. If you decide not to restore it, PM me.

**Jeremy Allen** · #7 04-17-2005, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KSB - Ken Smith

The 3-string went out of fashion about 100 years ago and is gone for good.

That's what I thought, too, until I was in Italy a couple of years ago and saw two of the most jaw-dropping bass performances ever by bassists playing in the street with traditional ("folk?" "gypsy?") bands. Both bassists had three-stringers, strung with gut, and they played the sh!t out of them! No amps, either, and they both filled the square with sound. I thought "Oh, that's where Tony Levin got the idea for his three-string bass guitar..."

If that bass were mine, I'd convert it to a four-string and PLAY it. But if I just wanted to deal with it as-is, I would tune it F-C-G (bottom to top) and have a novelty item with almost the full range of a four string bass tuned in fourths.

Phil Rowan · #8 04-17-2005, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johono5

That's what I thought, too, until I was in Italy a couple of years ago and saw two of the most jaw-dropping bass performances ever by bassists playing in the street with traditional ("folk?" "gypsy?") bands. Both bassists had three-stringers, strung with gut, and they played the sh!t out of them! No amps, either, and they both filled the square with sound. I thought "Oh, that's where Tony Levin got the idea for his three-string bass guitar..."

If that bass were mine, I'd convert it to a four-string and PLAY it. But if I just wanted to deal with it as-is, I would tune it F-C-G (bottom to top) and have a novelty item with almost the full range of a four string bass tuned in fourths.

I saw the same exact thing 2 summers ago in Rome. It was bas, mandolin I think, and accordion. The bassist let me check out his bass, and it sounded great. He had solid nylon strings on it too. He said he was selling it, but I had no way of bring it back to the US.

**Jeremy Allen** · #9 04-17-2005, 11:07 PM

Ha! It was in Rome that I saw them, too, but three summers ago. In the square right outside of the Pantheon. Probably was one of the same guys, but this band was a bit larger.

BTW, Phil, you will soon receive money in the mail...

Paul Warburton · #10 04-18-2005, 04:38 AM

Hey Cowboy....Would you mind telling where you found this bass?
What's an Antonius?
Please do try to post some shots of the back of the scroll box and the back...as Ken suggests. Try to get a close up of the button ( up where the back attaches to the neck area)
Also the ribs.
I love the turned end-pin.
Thanks and congratulations!

Alexi David · #11 04-18-2005, 05:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Warburton

What's an Antonius?

Cheapo EBAY-style bass................

form52 · #12 04-26-2005, 09:41 PM

For one reason or another this thread fascinated me.
I love a good mystery, I guess.
Anyway...

My grandfather is a music historian so I figured .. "Hey .. maybe he'll know a lil somthin about it", so I emailed him the pics.

He too wants more pics... and ... as odd as this may sound...
Get one of those little dentist mirrors shine a flashlight into the body and use the mirror to look at inner piece of the front between the F holes. See if there's either a name or some kind of etching there.
He seems to think it's a late 1800's (1880's) Russian made bass, made by (name escaped him at the moment) who primarily made violins.

If you could look at that and get some more pics, I'd like to send him as much as you can dig up.

People's Cowboy · #13 04-08-2006, 12:36 AM

I took this to a luthier in Chicago. He seems to think this bass was made in Southern Germany/Northern Italy/Austria- because of the type of wood and the construction. Although it spent some time in England- as can be seen in the headstock style (only the British used that fashion of brass-plating). However it didn't spend much time there because the wood on the inside of the bass isn't black (it didn't stay long enough to collect soot).

He also seems to think it's dated late 1700s-early 1800s.

This is all mere speculation. Any help would be appreciated.

Paul Warburton · #14 04-08-2006, 06:11 AM

With these pics, and what little info we have, it's a silly guessing game....but my first thought when I saw the full length shot was Tyrolean.
Kenny Boy, I can't see why you're thinking blockless wonder when you can't really see that area.
Cowboy, when you do take some more shots, please be sure to include a shot of that button area I mentioned before. Kenny Boy and myself do respect each other( you'd never know it) but we do enjoy our our little bass squables.
Thanks Man.

jneuman · #15 04-08-2006, 08:28 AM

Looks Tyrolean to me. Some countries that imported from Bavaria in the 1800's used 3-strings (England for one) not to mention folk players who still use 3-strings. Check to see if it were originally 4-strings and converted. This would make since. I dig the boxwood (?) fingerboard and tailpiece. That bass looks like it would be good for a period specialist since it is small, has older fittings (and no doubt a low overstand, etc) for gut strings. Convert it back to 4 and set up for baroque.
-Jon

Paul Warburton · #16 04-08-2006, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KSB - Ken Smith

Paul, if you look at thre full pic and blow it up. you can see the ribs raised and going into the neck a la blockless. This is not a crime or indication of a bad Bass at all. Many Prescotts were made Blockless as well as other fine English, Italian or German Basses of yesteryear. It was a style for quite awhile.

Where did I say anything negative about blockless wonders?
Where, also, did I say it was a crime or an indication of a bad bass?
If you dig back in our archives, you'll see i'm as much of a Prescott freak as anyone in the forum. I know it was a style for quite awhile.
Remember I play an American bass myself.
Prescott's basses were the first basses that I ever got a woody for.

Paul Warburton · #17 04-09-2006, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KSB - Ken Smith

Hold off on the 'woody', please Uncle Pauly.. No, you never said it was bad or a crime. I was just pointing that out for all of our readers. It is however important to put a neck block in if the Bass was made without one. Structurally, it will be better for the Bass overall.

By the way, next Saturday MY Prescott comes home for the first time. First, I will take lots of pics for my webpage. Then, I will download a disc from Arnold of Pics showing the Restoration process. This Bass got the works. The next Bass of mine to get at least as much working over if not more will be my Fendt. For that one Uncle Paul, you better reinforce your bathroom walls when it's done. We may be addressing 'it' as Mr. Woody!!

The Prescott may have to take 'second fiddle' to Maggini copy from young Fendt. I will not have the Fendt for at least a year so the Prescott will get plenty of playing. Then there is the Mystery (English) Bass. It will be done this year and will have good company in the Bass rack.

Fendt? When did I miss that?? You're getting a Fendt? I muust have missed that when I was sick. I'd love to have it be called Mr. Woody. I'll come out and we'll christen it!!!!
Congratulations!