What's a good height for strings?

[Don Higdon]

Originally Posted by Steve Killingsworth

DOUG OF THE STRINGS
And don't worry about being unable to read music. Reading music has nothing to do with learning proper technique. Once you learn how to handle and move around the bass, learning to read is not so imtimidating.

Preposterous.
If you can't read music, you can't play the exercises designed to teach you proper technique.

[Steve Killingsworth]

Originally Posted by Don Higdon

If you can't read music, you can't play the exercises designed to teach you proper technique.

I can't agree with you on that. It seems to me that proper technique is taught by a teacher. Scott Reed has given me numerous exercises to develop the facility of both hands, to switch between positions, learn the fingerboard, and even hold the bass. All of them have helped me become a better, but far from complete, musician. And none of them require sight reading.

Now I would agree that reading is an asset as one moves beyond the basics. Reading allows me to play more complex pieces and put into practice and farther develop those basic techniques.

[Doug Ring]

Originally Posted by Don Higdon

Preposterous.
If you can't read music, you can't play the exercises designed to teach you proper technique.

Well no-one can argue with that.

I'm not aspiring to orchestral technique, however. I'll be 50 this year and just want to have the same fun I've had for the last 30 years on BG with my DB but without pains every time I play and before arthritis sets in! I know I'll never make the grade as a bass for hire now.

I think anybody who's read music since they were very young has no idea how hard it is to pick it up when you're older. I imagine it would be as hard as trying to read words if you missed how to do that as a kid. The music teachers I had at school did nothing to encourage anyone who didn't declare that they wanted a classical education on a recognised instrument - the rest of us got to sing jolly hymns or folk tunes bashed out on a ratty old piano by a bored-out-of-their-head supply teacher It's a wonder I ever took up any instrument.

[Scot]

Doug,
Maybe you don't need to become an excellent sight reader but it would benefit you to be able to slowly read through the excersises in the Simandl book. You're only sight reading those exersises the first time you read them down and after that they just become mental "notes" of the exercises. The Simandl book is designed to systematically teach you where the notes and positions on the neck are and how to navigate the neck.

You might even discover that learning to read is fun.

-Scot

[godoze]

Doug I can come to Scotland and give you some lessons. The airfare, of course, will be included in the price.

[Doug Ring]

Hey thanks Don. There's a US cargo plane scheduled for RAF Leuchars this weekend - will that do

[Don Higdon]

Originally Posted by Don Higdon

If you can't read music, you can't play the exercises designed to teach you proper technique.

To which you reply

Originally Posted by Steve Killingsworth

I can't agree with you on that.

Maybe you can explain how someone plays a written exercise without being able to read it.

[Hector Wolff]

Doug,

I'm 53 and started studying DB three years ago. I also had to teach myself to read bass cleff (though I was a feeble treble cleff reader). I also came from the BG (though not for many years), and I'll tell you it's best to stop all comparisons, they tend to be counter productive.

The strength, stamina and much of the technique you developed for the BG is virtually useless. So yes, you will get tired, your hands will cramp, your fingers will get sore. This is all normal and part of the learning experience.

Learning to read is really not so hard, especially if you are already a musician, if you take it slow, in conjunction with your bass lessons. I had to go through the basic Simandel, from the begining, even though I knew the BG. If I had not nown how to read, if would have been a good time to start.

Just before taking lessons, I used to go through my BG method book, and write in the note names, painfully slowly at first, but gradually I could write as quickly as you could read words. Sight reading fluidly, though, is something that will only come through much work and experiance, though.

However, only a teacher will be able to teach correct technique and catch your lapses before they become bad and dangerous habits. Those hand cramps can move from a transitory phase in the learning process to a permanent disability, especially with the focus and discipline that an adult can bring to the learning process.

[Steve Killingsworth]

Originally Posted by Don Higdon

Maybe you can explain how someone plays a written exercise without being able to read it.

What we have here is a failure to communicate.

I don't think I said you can play written exercises without being able to read them. In your original post it seemed you were taking the position that only written exercises would teach proper technique. This may not have been your intent but that was just how it seemed to me.

I just think there are numerous exercises designed to improve technique that do not require reading.

[Doug Ring]

Hi Hector, thanks for your sympathetic post. Sounds as if you're a little further down the exact same road I'm on, and the fact that you're mastering it is very encouraging to me.

What you say about the DB being a completely different instrument is valuable too. It's very easy to think you can just bring BG technique to it on a larger scale, but the only advantage you have over a raw beginner is callouses and finger strength. However, that's a bit like saying you can run for the bus so why shouldn't you be able to do a marathon...

[lemur821]

Originally Posted by Steve Killingsworth

What we have here is a failure to communicate.

I don't think I said you can play written exercises without being able to read them. In your original post it seemed you were taking the position that only written exercises would teach proper technique. This may not have been your intent but that was just how it seemed to me.

I just think there are numerous exercises designed to improve technique that do not require reading.

Probably a better wording would be, "You can't play the exercises designed for practicing technique." Of course you can't learn proper techniqe from a piece of music, and a teacher is required. But still, it's a lot of work for you and the teacher if you have to memorize practice exercises during lesson time.

[Scot]

Originally Posted by lemur821

But still, it's a lot of work for you and the teacher if you have to memorize practice exercises during lesson time.

I agree with that and think it would be a waste of valuable time together with a teacher. I'm sure a teacher would be happy to teach the necessary exercises but if he can just assign written exercises it seems one would be able to get a lot more out of lessons. My teacher gave me several pages worth of stuff to work on at home when I saw him.

-Scot

[Scot]

Originally Posted by Doug Ring

...the only advantage you have over a raw beginner is callouses and finger strength.

I disagree. All of the fingerboard knowledge I learned from playing BG applies to the DB. It's got an E, A, D, and G string just like the BG. I don't really see the two as being that different, but maybe that's just me. An electric bassist has many advantages learning the DB compared to the raw beginner, IMO.

-Scot

[Doug Ring]

Hi Scot, well I can transfer some of what I've been playing on the BG straight over to the DB, but it sounds terrible half the time because of my intonation! And a lot of that comes from my avoidance of open strings on the BG so that I could play songs in any key with the same fingering. Of course, open strings are pretty necessary on the DB, so I've had a lot of re-learning of fingering to do as well as everything else!

Anyway...

My bass went in to have the action lowered this morning. Thanks to everybody for their comments.

[Scot]

Hi Doug,
My teacher has me working on all the major scales with and without open strings. It is a little rough making that half position shift but I guess it will come with practice. Come back and let us know how your bass is working out with the lower string height. Did you give them specific specs regarding the string height?

-Scot

[Doug Ring]

Yep, the F-octave stretch in half position is a real tendon-buster!

I asked the guy to take the action (sorry, force of habit... erm, string height) down by 4 mm. Remember I've got adjusters fitted, so if that's too low I can take it back up again. It'll at least give me a chance to see what really low strings do for me. I think that should be the point of having adjusters after all.

The shop guy is a violin craftsman and hands basses on to another luthier. He reckoned the bridge may have moved a little sideways since the E-height is much higher than the G, so that'll get fixed along with a check on the soundpost.

Should get her back before the end of the week, so I'll keep you posted right enough.

[Doug Ring]

Well I got my bass back yesterday, and there's been about 4mm taken out of the bridge. I could just about lay the strings on the fingerboard if I wanted. There was a small amount taken out of the nut as well.

I spent some time with her last night and tried the E string at around 7mm. I felt an immediate benefit in ease of getting around the fingerboard. There was a slight "floppy" feeling to the strings, but overall I much preferred it.

As predicted already on this thread (Chris?), the sustain has increased noticeably, though I supect at some loss of volume. The luthier's been at the soundpost (there's now a little dent in it!) and the response across the strings now seems much more even. She really sings now!

I'm so pleased I had this done. Thanks to everybody for their input.

[Scot]

Glad to hear that, Doug. I noticed the same thing when I had my string height lowered. Much more growl and sustain on the E and A strings. Much easier to play the E, A & D strings. For some reason, the G string is little harder to play because I think I like to dig in a little more than it's height will allow me to. My G is at 6 mm. My teacher said I can slowly raise the adjustable bridge - like a quarter turn per week.

-Scot