When?

[Meddle771]

What is the usual progression of bass acquirement?

Like plywood until i was __ years old/until my __ year of college

then i bought a brand new carved when i was __ years old and have been playing it until i sold it to buy an antique bass when i was __ years old

[wdnewman]

There is no "usual" progression of buying a bass. Just like basses everyone is different, coming from different backgrounds, circumstances, locations and abilities.
I, for instance played on plywood from the ages of 16 to 21. I just purchased my first carved bass at 68. I doubt I'll live long enough to buy another.

[tbassist4]

Originally Posted by wdnewman

There is no "usual" progression of buying a bass. Just like basses everyone is different, coming from different backgrounds, circumstances, locations and abilities.
I, for instance played on plywood from the ages of 16 to 21. I just purchased my first carved bass at 68. I doubt I'll live long enough to buy another.

+1. While technically, most classical students will end up going from a plywood bass to a hybrid or carved at some point, you have to factor in personal taste - they each produce a different kind of sound and excel in different things. A lot of bluegrass and jazz players prefer plywoods for the sound and durability. My teacher in high school was also telling me about this trend in certain orchestras a few years ago (sorry, I can't remember specifics) where players who had these nice pedigree carved basses were purchasing new well made plywood instruments, just because they could push more volume, and the nuances of some of their "nicer" basses were getting lost anyways. Plywoods are also less susceptible to changes in temperature and humidity.

Personally, I bought a ply at 16, and my parents helped me get a hybrid at 20 for my second half of college as a BM in bass performance. I still use the ply for jazz and bluegrass, and my ply actually outperforms my hybrid for these genres. My hybrid is rich and focused, while my ply is dark and full.

Sorry about the long post, I hope something in there was useful.
Tyler

[drurb]

Originally Posted by tbassist4

...My teacher in high school was also telling me about this trend in certain orchestras a few years ago (sorry, I can't remember specifics) where players who had these nice pedigree carved basses were purchasing new well made plywood instruments, just because they could push more volume, and the nuances of some of their "nicer" basses were getting lost anyways.

Wow. Would be interesting to know which orchestras those were.

Originally Posted by tbassist4

...I still use the ply for jazz and bluegrass, and my ply actually outperforms my hybrid for these genres. My hybrid is rich and focused, while my ply is dark and full.

I think these experiences and choices help to explain my own preference in a carved instrument. Specifically, one that has the typical "nuances" of a carved top coupled with a dark, powerful sound. The carved basses I prefer are those that tend to be quite a bit more powerful than any ply bass I've ever encountered. In fact, those basses would bury a ply in an orchestral setting both in terms of volume and tone. There are, of course, carved basses that are designed such that they have the complexity of tone and not the sheer power. Maybe the players in the orchestras where they switched to plys were playing carved basses of that ilk. It's a matter of preference and this all serves to illustrate, once again, why, especially in the case of carved instruments, it's so important to play as many as you can and choose one that speaks to you.

As far as the progression of stepping up, as I see it, it's a matter of changing ability, preference, available $$$, and type of music one is playing.

[tbassist4]

Originally Posted by drurb

Wow. Would be interesting to know which orchestras those were.

Not here to pick a fight, just relaying a story I was told. Didn't mean to ruffle any feathers.

Originally Posted by drurb

I think these experiences and choices help to explain my own preference in a carved instrument. Specifically, one that has the typical "nuances" of a carved top coupled with a dark, powerful sound. The carved basses I prefer are those that tend to be quite a bit more powerful than any ply bass I've ever encountered. In fact, those basses would bury a ply in an orchestral setting both in terms of volume and tone. There are, of course, carved basses that are designed such that they have the complexity of tone and not the sheer power. Maybe the players in the orchestras where they switched to plys were playing carved basses of that ilk. It's a matter of preference and this all serves to illustrate, once again, why, especially in the case of carved instruments, it's so important to play as many as you can and choose one that speaks to you.

As far as the progression of stepping up, as I see it, it's a matter of changing ability, preference, available $$$, and type of music one is playing.

I didn't mean to lay out a blanket statement of "all plys are louder than all carved instruments" - this is obviously not the case and I wasn't intending to imply it was so. However, pure volume isn't really dependent on whether a bass is carved, ply, or hybrid; or even the size. The "loudest" bass I've ever heard was a carved 1/2 size with solo strings. It would probably fail in an orchestral setting because the tone was far too complex to blend with anything, but for solo playing, it sounded absolutely amazing.

I would agree with your assumption that orchestras that switched to plys had quieter, more tonally developed carved basses and just needed something to "push more air" as they say. Depending on the piece, a loud, well made, power oriented ply might excel over something carved and tonally complex. I didn't mean to imply that plys sound better than carved instruments either, I just meant to say that some people prefer plys.

[drurb]

Originally Posted by tbassist4

Not here to pick a fight, just relaying a story I was told. Didn't mean to ruffle any feathers.



I didn't mean to lay out a blanket statement of "all plys are louder than all carved instruments" - this is obviously not the case and I wasn't intending to imply it was so. However, pure volume isn't really dependent on whether a bass is carved, ply, or hybrid; or even the size. The "loudest" bass I've ever heard was a carved 1/2 size with solo strings. It would probably fail in an orchestral setting because the tone was far too complex to blend with anything, but for solo playing, it sounded absolutely amazing.

I would agree with your assumption that orchestras that switched to plys had quieter, more tonally developed carved basses and just needed something to "push more air" as they say. Depending on the piece, a loud, well made, power oriented ply might excel over something carved and tonally complex. I didn't mean to imply that plys sound better than carved instruments either, I just meant to say that some people prefer plys.

Wow, no feathers ruffled, no fight picked, and no disagreement. I never thought you ever meant to imply any of the things you said you didn't mean to imply. Sorry if somehow my post came off as being in any way negative. I truly found your story interesting and was simply trying to add to your observations, etc. by pointing out that some carved basses are indeed quieter than many plys and are still preferred by players, depending on the type of music to be played. On the other hand, some carved basses are cannons beyond any ply. Those are the ones I tend to prefer.

[tbassist4]

Originally Posted by drurb

Wow, no feathers ruffled, no fight picked, and no disagreement. I never thought you ever meant to imply any of the things you said you didn't mean to imply. Sorry if somehow my post came off as being in any way negative. I truly found your story interesting and was simply trying to add to your observations, etc. by pointing out that some carved basses are indeed quieter than many plys and are still preferred by players, depending on the type of music to be played. On the other hand, some carved basses are cannons beyond any ply. Those are the ones I tend to prefer.

Gotcha, my fault. I've gotten negative reactions to that story before so my first response is defense. I agree as well that the loudest of basses tend to be carved (as with that 1/2 size I described before), although many plys have more "boom" which tends to make them be perceived as louder, whether it is actually the case or not. The funny thing is that the basses that are "quietest" up close end up being the loudest in the hall, and vice versa, for this very reason. Focus carries, and boom dissipates or rather gets lost.

Once again, my apologies. I should read twice before typing.

[Paul Warburton]

What's up with you two?
Man. Things are changing around here lately. You two coulda had a perfectly good TB fight going on there. Instead, you chose to be respectful and apologetic to each other.
I dunno.

[Nitzleplick]

You're not a true Bassist untill you've widdled your own Bass with a pocket knife and use yarn for strings.

[MIKMAN]

In the 51 years of my life i watch closely the evolution of the DB life of many friends, students etc. Usually they start with a plywood, since the money available plus the uncertain DB venture tends to make them frugal buyers. As they continue to explore the DB world they upgrade their gear either with a hybrid or with a modest carved instrument. I'm more than sure that in each DB player's mind is the purchase of a fully carved double bass, this floor shaking canon we all dream of. Many friends can afford it sooner or later in their DB life and they consider it a major breakthrough in their whole life. Some others, myself included, tend to continue this eternal quest for THE bass, travelling in many places to try instruments, attending special events etc. When they convince themselves that they have found THE proper instrument they buy it, financing the purchase by all possible means. After some happy time they start the quest for the next "best instrument in the world" and this goes on and on...
So, IMHO, the progression in the DB world it's a mind's game, which for normal folks tends to reach a finale with a fully carved well made instrument. For some guys like me it's a never ending obsession. I'm still working with my therapist, to no avail....

[drurb]

Originally Posted by Paul Warburton

What's up with you two?
Man. Things are changing around here lately. You two coulda had a perfectly good TB fight going on there. Instead, you chose to be respectful and apologetic to each other.
I dunno.

Don't worry-- tbassist4 and I exchanged nasty PMs in which we insulted each other and each other's entire family.

[Bruce Lindfield]

Originally Posted by Meddle771

What is the usual progression of bass acquirement?

Like plywood until i was __ years old/until my __ year of college

then i bought a brand new carved when i was __ years old and have been playing it until i sold it to buy an antique bass when i was __ years old

From reading things around here and talking to quite a few DB players at Jazz Summerschool etc. - the progression for me and many other people has been :

Played bass guitar from an early age - never touched a Double Bass of any kind! Got into Jazz in late 30s/early 40s and bought the best bass that could be afforded, which was actually a full-carved model!

[Phil Rowan]

For me.. Started on electric, started on upright in high school (school Kays or other older plywoods).. acquired my own Kay while in high school, used that all through college. A year after college I was getting a lot more into arco work/classical playing and felt it was time for an upgrade. Tried a bunch of basses and came home with an old 40's hybrid bass that works wonderfully for arco as well as pizz, with a more complex/nuanced sound but still a bit of punch thanks to the thin plywood back/sides.

PS - I still have the Kay.. that thing packs such a good punch.

[Bruce Lindfield]

I think the thing about Ply basses is unique to the US, as you never see a Kay in Britain - they are incredibly rare over here and in Europe I think, where there is a good supply of carved basses?

[Peck_Time]

No Kays Englehardts here either. Lots of German shop basses and a few french along with the Chinese/ Korean entry level models.

[fdeck]

Kays were made in Chicago, at a time when there was a lot of population expansion, and practically every high school in the Midwest had a rack of Kays. A lot of the Kays that are now in circulation, including mine, are ex school instruments.

There's another thing about plywood basses, at least here in the Midwest: The climate. Temperatures swing from -20 to +90 deg F, and from 0 to 100% humidity. Amazingly, carved basses that are well taken care of can survive this, but most schools are older buildings with no humidity control or air conditioning. The instrument storeroom at my old middle school easily got above 110 F during the summer months. We had a Roth fiberglass bass, and it melted.

[tbassist4]

Originally Posted by drurb

Don't worry-- tbassist4 and I exchanged nasty PMs in which we insulted each other and each other's entire family.

It was seriously bad news. Sailors and army sergeants came from the far corners of the globe to witness our verbal brawl over PM, and we soon sent them crying to their mothers. Things got so bad that I think we fried a processor on one of the TB servers as well.

[Paul Warburton]

Whatever. I just think it's selfish of you both not to exchange your ugliness with the rest of the TBDB community.

[Bruce Lindfield]

Actually, I think I'm pretty sure I don't want their ugliness and they don't want mine!!

[tbassist4]

Originally Posted by Bruce Lindfield

Actually, I think I'm pretty sure I don't want their ugliness and they don't want mine!!

We accept all challengers.

[/end thread hijack]