When it comes to DB tops what are the wood choices?

rgarcia26 · #1 10-06-2010, 09:50 AM

Other that the Obvious Spruce, what are good choices to make a DB top…???
And for the Americans Luthier’s how much should I be ready to put down for a top?
Seems like when we add the world tone wood increase to a piece of wood the price become 2 or 3 times what it should be!!!
And last one, if you guys can recommend places online or close to Atlanta to buy quality non-super expensive wood\lumber for instrument building, I will appreciate your help?

Jason Sypher · #2 10-06-2010, 09:52 AM

Spruce, Pine, Cedar...

Steve Swan · #3 10-06-2010, 09:54 AM

Some of the Kolstein basses are made with slab cut fir tops.

Big B. · #4 10-06-2010, 11:00 AM

Try Carlton McClendon's Rare Woods and Veneers on Hemphill ave. The owner, Richard is a good friend of mine and has least at 300 different species available. Tell him Brandon Taylor from Alabama told you about him. He knows more about wood than any person I have met and you get awesome one on one help. Even if you don't know what you are looking for he will take the time to help you find what you need. Atlanta Hardwoods also offers a good selection of the more standard domestics and exotics but their prices are higher and they are far too large of a company to have passion for the materials they sell.

Jake deVilliers · #5 10-06-2010, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Swan

Some of the Kolstein basses are made with slab cut fir tops.

Hey Steve, 'fir' covers a lot of ground - do you know what kind of fir?

Thanks, Jake

rgarcia26 · #6 10-06-2010, 12:55 PM

Douglas fir??? that should be cheap

rgarcia26 · #7 10-06-2010, 01:16 PM

Sorry to be ignorant but, I can only use softwoods for the top? Isn’t that weird

Steve Swan · #8 10-06-2010, 05:12 PM

The factory started series from Kolstein that are finished out in New York come from Romania, so it would be a safe bet that the fir tops used are from that region or close by. The instruments that Barrie builds himself would probably have more choice examples of the same wood. I have't cruised around the Kolstein site recently. He may discuss the fir tops somewhere in there. The few U.S. guitar makers that I know who have used domestic fir tops report that they had to make the plates pretty thin because this stuff is wickedly stiff. I don't know how many different kinds of european firs might be large enough to be used for a doublebass and how stiff they might be compared to U.S. varieties that grow to comparable dimensions.

fdeck · #9 10-06-2010, 06:27 PM

I'm not a luthier.

AFAIK there are some Kay plywood basses with hardwood tops, presumably made from the same stuff as the backs. As for carving, here's what I would think about. If you choose a "standard" wood, then there will be lots of people out there who have worked with the same material and can share their advice, techniques, and so forth. Also, I imagine that the desired thickness profile of the top would depend on the type of wood used. Thus, working with one of the standard woods probably gives you the best chance of either succeeding, or having people who can help you if you get in trouble, or both.

eerbrev · #10 10-06-2010, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rgarcia26

Sorry to be ignorant but, I can only use softwoods for the top? Isn’t that weird

A luthier can correct me if I'm wrong, but i remember being told that tops are made out of a softer wood than the back and sides to promote projection out the front of the instrument, as opposed to equally out from all sides. This promotes more volume out to the front, where the listener presumably is. I also can assume that if the top is of a softer, easier vibrating wood then it will likely respond better than one that doesn't.

As I said, if I'm wrong, please correct me, but this is what I've been told.

Eerbrev

rgarcia26 · #11 10-07-2010, 06:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eerbrev

A luthier can correct me if I'm wrong, but i remember being told that tops are made out of a softer wood than the back and sides to promote projection out the front of the instrument, as opposed to equally out from all sides. This promotes more volume out to the front, where the listener presumably is. I also can assume that if the top is of a softer, easier vibrating wood then it will likely respond better than one that doesn't.

As I said, if I'm wrong, please correct me, but this is what I've been told.

Eerbrev

Actually correct me if I’m wrong too… I heard that Spruce is very hard and It wont vibrate and that is the reason why, they use for an DB top 

And I heard also the Softwoods in general are very hard

Jake deVilliers · #12 10-07-2010, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Swan

The factory started series from Kolstein that are finished out in New York come from Romania, so it would be a safe bet that the fir tops used are from that region or close by. The instruments that Barrie builds himself would probably have more choice examples of the same wood. I have't cruised around the Kolstein site recently. He may discuss the fir tops somewhere in there. The few U.S. guitar makers that I know who have used domestic fir tops report that they had to make the plates pretty thin because this stuff is wickedly stiff. I don't know how many different kinds of european firs might be large enough to be used for a doublebass and how stiff they might be compared to U.S. varieties that grow to comparable dimensions.

That's what I thought. European Fir is quite a different species from Douglas Fir (not a fir at all...) and is a much more stable wood.

Doug Fir certainly gets big enough for DB tops but the wood is notoriously unstable. Like Western Hemlock, it has quite a lot of tension built into it. Its not bad for smaller, narrower uses but any larger pieces with some age on them show a lot of cracks.

Big B. · #13 10-07-2010, 11:05 AM

I haven't read any direct info on DB's but acoustic guitar makers often refer to weight vs. stiffness. It seems that the best topwoods, at least for guitar, are woods that are as light as possible while being as "stiff" as possible. IME, Sitka spruce, in particular, is very light while being surprisingly strong. Looking at the thickness of a flat acoustic guitar top (in the area of 0.10") vs. the amount of tension of the strings you can see how this becomes an issue.

My luthier is an older gentleman who builds very fine violins and bows and I have spoken to him about this to some degree. Interestingly enough he also has a hunch that quality Honduran Mahogany could be used as well due to its strength vs. weight characteristics. There are some pre-war Martin guitars with mahogany tops that sound wonderful. Supposedly it takes longer for the wood to open up but when it does is has a very powerful sound. Honduran Mahogany is available in some of the biggest slabs I have ever seen and exhibits a wonderful ribbon stripe on the quartersawn side.

eerbrev · #14 10-07-2010, 01:44 PM

well so far it looks as if I stand (or sit, I suppose. I AM in front of a computer) corrected. Great information guys.

I've seen pics of those mahogany topped guitars. as I remember (though we've seen how good my memory is!) they had mahogany backs and sides too. I wonder how that changed the sound/volume?

Eerbrev

rgarcia26 · #15 10-09-2010, 08:58 PM

Big b, that could be nice make an db top made from mahogany! Well it makes me wonder why there are not many db's made with hm not one that Know, but again I'm know very little about the topic, if we can use hm we can also USA Spanish cerdar! Well speculating about it, I don't see why h. Mahogany will fail as a db top, specially if is quarter sawn! Now that's another issue! The wood for a db should be QS, right?