Wood or Plywood

[shadowhywind]

Hi all, I have had this question for a while now, and don't know where else to ask it.

I have owned my bass for a goo 7+ years now. I was only about 15 when i first picked up my bass, So i didn't get alot of information about it, aka if it was wood or plywood. So here is a small discription of my bass and see if you can come up with anything. I will take pictures and post them if you wish. There is also no label inside of my bass.

The reason why i think its wood: A)It is not glossy/shiny as most plywood basses are. B) It has not splintered or peeled like plywood basses do. c)I asked a luthier if it was wood or not, and he said it was wood, but wanting a second opinion.

Reason why i think its plywood: A) the wood does not look like normal wood basses, no wood grains.

Any ideas?

[drurb]

Post detailed pictures, especially of the edges of the top and back.

[shadowhywind]

Ok so i have taken some pictures and put them up on my website since my camera takes such hugh pictures. If you click on the pictures it will show an enlarged version of them. Also there is a picture of the inside of the bass, where there is a weird diamond shape of wood, there are a handful of them that run down the back. So i thought i would include it. So here is the link, what do you guys think? any information would be great.

http://www.uwm.edu/~dlbreed/bassPics.html

[Ed Fuqua]

Well what you should have done was take more pictures of the inside of your bass, but right off the bat - those little diamonds are cleats and they are generally used to repair a crack and plywood basses don't get cracks.

But think about it for a minute - how do you make a bass body out of plywood? You get some plywood, cut the edges into a bass shape and then press the body to get the round back swell. So if you look inside and see actual chisel marks in the wood of the interior, well they ain't gonna carve plywood, right?
Plus, that's a nice grain on the interior, I have to think that if that was th etop layer of ply, it would have ended up on the outside, not the inside....

[drurb]

Originally Posted by Ed Fuqua

Well what you should have done was take more pictures of the inside of your bass, but right off the bat - those little diamonds are cleats and they are generally used to repair a crack and plywood basses don't get cracks...

Such cleats are also used in the building of (non-plywood) basses across the "halves" of the back, for example.

[toman]

Kind of tough to tell from those angles; the cleats indicate solid wood, but from a couple of those pics, the edges kinda look like plywood. Best bet would be to get some better pics, if possible in daylight (outside) especially of the edges inside the f-holes. For me that's where it's usually easiest to tell, unless they've been dyed really dark.

[Greg Clinkingbeard]

Fully carved. The diamonds on the back seam are cleats to reinforce the seam. Lacquer finish.
The wood has little or no figure or flame in it, but even plywood can be figured.
It looks like you have taken good care of it.

[Phil Rowan]

My Kay (which is a plywood, obviously), has "wood grains" of sorts, so I don't think it necessarily matters as much whether your bass is carved or ply for it to have wood grains. Also, I've seen carved basses that are shinier and glossier than my Kay. OTOH, the back of my Lang hybrid looks enough like solid wood, so it really sort of depends on how an individual bass was finished, etc...

Based on the pictures you posted, as far as I can tell, the bass you have looks carved. If you look at the left and right shoulders in the very first picture, you can see some wood grains that would make me thing it's carved. Also, on the close up pictures of the side of the bass, I don't see any layers on the side view of the top and back of the bass. I guess you could cover those layers up, but it doesn't look like that's the case here.

Anyway, that's just what I see. I could be wrong, of course. If I could hear the bass in person, I could probably tell whether or not it's carved.

[toman]

Originally Posted by Phil Rowan

If I could hear the bass in person, I could probably tell whether or not it's carved.

I'd be interested to see the results of some blind auditions of a variety of carved vs. ply basses. I've heard some laminated basses that sound quite good and plenty of carved basses that sound like poo. I really don't think that a blanket statement of "laminated basses always sound worse than solid ones" is accurate at all.

Not only in terms of sound, but in practicallity, cost and ease of availability, I'd take a good, well set-up laminate over a cheap carved bass any day.

[drurb]

Originally Posted by toman

I'd be interested to see the results of some blind auditions of a variety of carved vs. ply basses. I've heard some laminated basses that sound quite good and plenty of carved basses that sound like poo. I really don't think that a blanket statement of "laminated basses always sound worse than solid ones" is accurate at all.

Not only in terms of sound, but in practicallity, cost and ease of availability, I'd take a good, well set-up laminate over a cheap carved bass any day.

Sounds like the makings of a whole new thread to me! Here's a quote from one of my previous posts:

There are entry level carved basses that, from many standpoints, are far less desirable than a quality ply! Think of ply, hybrid, and carved as three overlapping distributions (bell-curves, if you will), with the mean value of "quality" being lowest for the plys, intermediate for the hybrids, and highest for the carved ones.

As you can see, I basically agree with you. Consistent with what I said above, I think I could pretty much tell you what isn't a plywood bass. That is, if you played a high-quality carved bass for me, I believe that, upon hearing that characteristic complexity of tone, I could tell that you were not playing a laminate. There are certainly (low quality) carved basses that I wouldn't judge substantially different from some laminates.

[toman]

Oh, definately. A carved bass of even decent quality is not going to be mistaken for a laminate, but I think there are plenty of laminate basses out there that are far better, in several ways, than many solid basses. And, I have to say, that I would probably even be willing to sacrifice a little tone quality for the practicallity that comes with a laminate. Above all though, I really think that setup is the key factor; an amazing setup job will make even the worst bass far better than a poor setup on a decent bass.

[drurb]

Originally Posted by toman

...I really think that setup is the key factor; an amazing setup job will make even the worst bass far better than a poor setup on a decent bass.

The value of a good setup cannot be overestimated. I seem to recall that some time ago there was a thread in which tempers got close to flaring over which was more desirable: a so-so bass with an excellent setup or a spectacular bass with an awful setup. If I arrived at a gig (without my own bass) and was forced to choose, I'd take the so-so bass with the excellent setup.

[Phil Rowan]

Originally Posted by toman

I really don't think that a blanket statement of "laminated basses always sound worse than solid ones" is accurate at all.

I never said that.

[shadowhywind]

If you want, and if it would help, I can take more, better, pictures if you want. I was in a hurry taking them, taking them in between classes. What angles of the bass did you want to see different?
Also not sure if this helps, trying to remember every detail is sort of hard,but on the shoulders of the bass, the wood is very soft.I mean if you push it in the center you can see the wood slightly bend, i normally don't see that happening on other bass, it might just be something weird with my bass.

[toman]

Originally Posted by Phil Rowan

I never said that.

Sorry, didn't mean to imply that you did. Just that I think laminated basses tend to get a bad rap that they don't deserve, especially when there are so many bad carved bass floating around.

[drurb]

Originally Posted by toman

...especially when there are so many bad carved bass floating around.

+1! Many buyers are taken in by the fact that a bass is "fully carved." That's no guarantee, in and of itself, of playability, overall quality of construction, or desirable sound. IMO, a buyer should be very cautious when it comes to entry-level carved basses. Some (certainly not all) are very poor deals.

[Silversorcerer]

That's a carved bass top if I've ever seen one. Plywood could not possibly have so much relief at the edge. Nice looking grain, too.

Sometimes cleats are not indicative of repairs. If the back of the bass was built from multiple pieces of wood, as my Kremona is, there could be cleats to reinforce the joins. Mine has them and of course has never had a crack.

That's a good looking bass to me. No fancy wood, but nice looking carving job, and really clean lines. So there is no label inside??? Get a mirror and make sure there is no label on the top. It is rare, but some have the label stuck on the top instead of the back to make it easier to re-brand them by the reseller.

Many German basses have exterior linings or coronas like that. I have seen these on Chinese basses also, but usually not so neatly fitted. My guess would be that it is German or Czech.

[Phil Rowan]

Originally Posted by toman

Sorry, didn't mean to imply that you did. Just that I think laminated basses tend to get a bad rap that they don't deserve, especially when there are so many bad carved bass floating around.

No worries. I was talking about a difference in sound, but not about one being better than the other.

I once played an American Standard that sounded amazing, with a huge sound and plenty of depth for a plywood (I even asked myself, "Is this really plywood?") And I don't plan on getting rid of my old Kay anytime soon, if ever. There's a big difference between the sound of my Kay and my hybrid, but this is not to say that the Kay sounds like complete crap.

[drurb]

Originally Posted by Phil Rowan

No worries. I was talking about a difference in sound...

Indeed, but the point made by myself and others is that you may not be able to tell at all whether a given bass is carved or not simply by hearing it. If it is a quality carved bass, you could sure say that what you are hearing is not plywood. If it is a low-quality carved bass, you may not be able to make that judgment. In other words, the sound will likely allow you to say what IS carved but not what ISN'T. I suspect we all agree upon this.

[Phil Rowan]

Originally Posted by Phil Rowan

(I even asked myself, "Is this really plywood?")

Right on, drurb.