complete bow ******

Dragonlord · #1 07-12-2006, 01:17 PM

Hello, please don't go hard on me (don't even know if I should post this at "bows and rosin", posted it here as it's for a EUB and this forum doesn't get many threads anyway).

I play electric bass for 8 or so years now, and I just bought an almost new NS Bass Cello. I know absolutely nothing about bowing, I've always been a plucker. I'd like to get some lessons but in my small town it's not possible, so I have a heavy load of questions.

I try to bow the bass cello but the sound is very very thin. Most of what I get is just string noise.
1) Do I need to bow with all the hair touching the string (bow vertical to string), or should I put the bow in an angle?
2) Do I need to put rosin on the bow hair? Could this be why I get practically no sound? If yes, please recommend me a good one.
3) Is it safe to use the bow without rosin? Won't rosin reduce the life of the strings?
4) With the bass cello came an accessory that is like a long stone with wood on 3 sides (and one uncovered). It fits the bow hair so I guess it's for hair maintainance or something? What do I do with that?

Thanks and sorry for being so ignorant but I'm totally new to this..

Jim Carr · #2 07-12-2006, 01:26 PM

Hi-
You must use rosin on the bow hair, but it is not very feasible to teach bowing on a chat list.

I suggest you call the local college and get the name of a bass or cello teacher. If you don't have any luck, try the local High School and Junior High.

A certified music teacher in public school can teach you the basics.

Dragonlord · #3 07-12-2006, 01:33 PM

Trust me, not in this town. No college either...

Jeff Guevin · #4 07-12-2006, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dragonlord

4) With the bass cello came an accessory that is like a long stone with wood on 3 sides (and one uncovered). It fits the bow hair so I guess it's for hair maintainance or something? What do I do with that?

I'm guessing that's the rosin--I once had some rosin that came in a wood block like that. And yes, you'll want rosin, and not using it would explain why you get no sound. Good luck!

Jim Carr · #5 07-12-2006, 01:49 PM

Here are some quick answers to your questions.

1) Do I need to bow with all the hair touching the string (bow vertical to string), or should I put the bow in an angle?

A: vertical, mostly.

2) Do I need to put rosin on the bow hair? Could this be why I get practically no sound? If yes, please recommend me a good one.
3) Is it safe to use the bow without rosin? Won't rosin reduce the life of the strings?

A: No, rosin won't hurt the strings, and the bow won't work without it.

4) With the bass cello came an accessory that is like a long stone with wood on 3 sides (and one uncovered). It fits the bow hair so I guess it's for hair maintainance or something? What do I do with that?

A: That's rosin. Hold it in the palm of one hand, and the grip (frog) of the bow in the other hand. Make sure the hair has been tightened (turn the little metal end of the bow until the hair is a bit taught--be careful). Using moderate presurre, draw the bow down over the rosin from heel to tip (in one direction only). Draw the bow across the rosin a lot, say a dozen or more times, as you need to build up a certain amount to get it going. Next time you will only need a swipe or two.
Don't panic if one or two bow hairs break.

Good luck finding a teacher. You will!

Jim Carr · #6 07-12-2006, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dragonlord

Trust me, not in this town. No college either...

I just noticed you are in Greece! I feel certain you can find someone, even in a Greek village. A folk violinist might be helpful.

Language is not so important. Ask in the Market. Consider taking a train or a ferry to a larger town.

Dragonlord · #7 07-12-2006, 01:57 PM

Thanks, extra helpful!

Dragonlord · #8 07-12-2006, 02:21 PM

Well, I did what you said but there seems to be little improvement. I drew the bow across the rosin for like 50 times, but the rosin seems to be very solid. It was waiting at the greek customs for 2.5 months (it came from the usa) so I don't know if the conditions there hardened it... I actually don't know how hard it should be in the first place, so...
Anyway, is this normal? Should I just continue drawing the bow across the rosin until there is enough on the hair? Should I try to heat up the rosin somehow?

Jim Carr · #9 07-12-2006, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dragonlord

Well, I did what you said but there seems to be little improvement. I drew the bow across the rosin for like 50 times, but the rosin seems to be very solid. It was waiting at the greek customs for 2.5 months (it came from the usa) so I don't know if the conditions there hardened it... I actually don't know how hard it should be in the first place, so...
Anyway, is this normal? Should I just continue drawing the bow across the rosin until there is enough on the hair? Should I try to heat up the rosin somehow?

Don't heat it.

If you want to leave it in the sun for 10 minutes or so, fine, but no microwaves, stoves, candles, boiling water, etc.

In rare cases, that might be done, but it is dangerous, and is for real veterans. Use friction to get the hard surface to "erode."

Like this->Apply bow pressure with the hair to the EDGE of the cake of rosin, with the hair at about a 45 degree angle to the edge. Move the bow rapidly in down strokes.

You should feel a fair amount of grab if you are doing it right.
Friction from steady firm pressure and quick drawing of the hair should cause marks in the rosin. Try it again until you get marks in the cake from the hair. This takes several passes with a new cake.

Once that is happening, keep going. It should start feeling sticky.

BTW-don't touch the bow hair (if you have, don't worry). Oils from the
skin are the "opposite" of rosin.

Let's keep at this. Try again.

Three33 · #10 07-13-2006, 06:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dragonlord

Well, I did what you said but there seems to be little improvement. I drew the bow across the rosin for like 50 times, but the rosin seems to be very solid. It was waiting at the greek customs for 2.5 months (it came from the usa) so I don't know if the conditions there hardened it... I actually don't know how hard it should be in the first place, so...
Anyway, is this normal? Should I just continue drawing the bow across the rosin until there is enough on the hair? Should I try to heat up the rosin somehow?

don't heat, but you could try scratching the surface a little bit before you try to apply it to the bow strings. it sounds like they may have given you cello rosin instead of bass rosin, which means it will have less pull and you won't get the same results as if you have bass rosin (which is softer anyways). I reccomend Pop's Bass Rosin. look for it in the red cylinder. When I got my upright bass the y gave me cello rosin too. But if you get the Pop's, be careful; it's part bee's wax, and it need to be kept at room temperature or colder, it WILL melt in heat!

Dragonlord · #11 07-13-2006, 12:00 PM

Update: well, I tried everything. Started with leaving it under the sun for a while, then scratching it, eventually I even heated it a little with a lighter, against your advice. I saw little if any improvement. The thing is rock solid. Guess I'll have to buy me a new rosin...

Dragonlord · #12 07-13-2006, 12:45 PM

OK, I just used the lighter pretty hard on the rosin (almost melted) and it worked wonders on the bow! Now I have sound, not as loud as I should yet, I'll have to do the same thing later. Anyway, do I have to press the bow on the string or just let it flow smoothly on it? Because by pressing I get a louder sound, so I need to see how much rosin I need for good volume with the right technique. Thanks!

Dragonlord · #13 07-14-2006, 07:39 AM

LOL, it seems that the only thing that worked was what everyone said I should avoid... I put it in the microwaves for a few seconds, it melted in some parts, I applied it and now I can finally use my bow and be heard. Nice

Three33 · #14 07-14-2006, 09:23 AM

no man... i think you need different rosin...get some pop's, or look over in the rosin section of this forum for some ideas

Dragonlord · #15 07-14-2006, 11:35 AM

Yes yes, I'll get some (don't know if I can get Pop's here in Greece though, is Thomastik any good?). Just wanted at least a quick fix because I couldn't stand having this unique instrument in my room and not being able to try it out!
Cheers

mrpc · #16 07-15-2006, 12:33 AM

Okay, here's a question. What kind of strings are on your instrument?

Some types strings are impossible to get much sound out of with a bow.

Dragonlord · #17 07-15-2006, 01:36 AM

Well, they are flatwound strings, custom made by d'addario for the bass cello so they were designed for playing with a bow. My problem really was that I couldn't get any rosin on the bow hair.
BTW, although on the first "frets" I get a nice sound, when I play higher I get a harsh sound... is this a technique problem or could it be something else?

Dragonlord · #18 07-16-2006, 08:48 AM

For anyone interested, turns out I had applied too much rosin and that made the sound harsh. All is good now, thanks

Anon2962 · #19 07-16-2006, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dragonlord

Yes yes, I'll get some (don't know if I can get Pop's here in Greece though, is Thomastik any good?). Just wanted at least a quick fix because I couldn't stand having to his unique instrument in my room and not being able to try it out!
Cheers

I know a few bass players in greece. Where in Greece do you live?!?! You can order bass rosin from alot of places online (eg www.lemurmusic.com, www.bassrosin.com) or try to find nymans or carlson rosin... but I find it hard to believe that pops isn't available in the country!

Then again i've never been to greece, so i really dont know what im talking about.

If there's one thing you should do, no matter how far you have to travel, is get at least a few hours in with a bass teacher to show you the basics of bowing. I'd bet you'd go back for more lessons.

Dragonlord · #20 07-17-2006, 08:07 AM

I live in Corinth

Which ones do you know?
It's really not far from Athens (it's between Athens and Patras). Anyway, my abused rosin seems to work rather well after all! The bow needed some more and a couple of rubs did the job pretty well.
I'm working on getting a teacher, I just have to find a real good one to justify the trip to another town every now and then (I have a steady job here, so my free time isn't really huge). One quick bowing question: should I put my pinky on top of the frog to keep the balance on the bow? Is that common/recommended? I find I need to do this to keep it balanced, but don't know if it's the proper technique.

There might be pops here in Greece, but I'm really afraid of asking for it at the local shop cause no-one knows how long it would have been there. Can't travel to Athens right now either... and I don't know if it's good to order it, as the sun is burning in the summer in Greece and I don't think that it would be good to have it waiting in the heat for 8 hours until I get back from work.