Effects Pedal to make EUB sound Accoustic?

[pmarche]

Okay... I think I was silly thinking that I could find an EUB that would sound as soulful as my upright. To think you can get that purety only found from the accoustic mass hollow body of a true bass from a stick with strings is a little silly. But how about an effects pedal that can fill in that wholesome tone that the EUBs are missing? Is there one out there? I love to be able to travel lightly with my EUB but I am not willing to give up the sound of my double bass for it. Does anyone out there know of an effects pedal that can make an electric sound like a real bass? There has to be one. They make guitar pedals to sound like orchestras, vocals, robots, etc... they have to have a bass pedal that makes an electric bass sound like and upright....

pmarche
www.garageband.com/aparatus
www.f-brainstorm.com/aip

[hdiddy]

Tell us when you find one.

[Francois Blais]

Originally Posted by pmarche

There has to be one. They make guitar pedals to sound like orchestras, vocals, robots, etc...

Are you talking of a MIDI guitar controller with a sampler module?

The only thing I see would be to put a MIDI interface on your EUB and use good AUB samplings.
I don't know where they are with a MIDI controller for bass since the tracking and pitch is hard to get since the frequency is so low, therefore slow to process. (delayed)

Originally Posted by hdiddy

Tell us when you find one.

[abaguer]

You'd be better off with judicious string selection and setup than with pedals. You already have an instrument with the appropriate string length, bridge, etc. so IMHO you're more than halfway there.

From my experience: I have Knutson Messenger and Eminence fixed neck. Both are set up differently. The eminence is set up much closer to my upright (Higher action, Garbo strings) and it does a really good job of getting a sound of a gut string plywood amplified (which it basically is).

The Knutson is set up with lower action and steel strings and gets a more modern sound with a lot more sustain since it is basically a solidbody EUB.

I'd go in this string/setup direction than in the pedal direction. And remember nothing is going to sound exactly like your upright, except your upright.

[BigBeatNut]

Check message #15 in this thread for one idea.

[buddyro57]

I know what you are going after; Boss makes several pedals that emulate acoustic guitars. These are either modeling technology or perhaps eq pedals that scoop out a lot of mids while accentuating certain high freqs. I think most of these are pretty bad sounding- BUT the Boss acoustic preamps like the AD 5
http://www.bossus.com/gear/productde...?ProductId=158

did actually simulate (somehow) an acoustic chamber. I tried it out in the music store with my Ergo and thought the sound was usable. I think you would have to live with it- trying some different settings with your own EUB and rig to see if it is worth the bread, but I have to say that I was surprised (although I ultimately passed).
JS

[dar512]

There are a number of EUBs that sound nearly as good as amplified UBs. But IMO it takes more than a slab with longer strings. The bridge has to sit on something that flexes/vibrates - Eminence, some of the Azolas, Merchant, others.

I don't think post-processing (via pedal) is going to help. Try one of the above with decent setup and strings and see if it sounds close enough for your taste.

[BigBeatNut]

That reminds me ... there's a company called D-Tar (I think) and (again, I think) associated with Rick Turner, that produces sophisticated boxes that allow the sound from acoustic guitars to be remodelled to emulate other acoustic guitars. So a large body becomes a small body or or vice versa.

There's been talk in the past of a similar box from his company to pull similar stunts for basses. Whether that was pure speculation or actual conversation with Rick Turner I don't know. Steve Lawson (on this forum somewhere) would know more.

[Bob Gollihur]

Originally Posted by BigBeatNut

That reminds me ... there's a company called D-Tar (I think) and (again, I think) associated with Rick Turner, that produces sophisticated boxes that allow the sound from acoustic guitars to be remodelled to emulate other acoustic guitars. So a large body becomes a small body or or vice versa.

There's been talk in the past of a similar box from his company to pull similar stunts for basses. Whether that was pure speculation or actual conversation with Rick Turner I don't know. Steve Lawson (on this forum somewhere) would know more.

Yes, it is D-TAR, they make the MamaBear for acoustic guitar. It is an interesting device that has a sixteen position rotary switch for the input and output type, so you choose the sort of transducer type being used, and then select the category of guitar you want to come out on the other side. The idea is to help your Ovation's undersaddle pickup sound like an old Gibson, or at least more like a mic'd acoustic rather than a harsh undersaddle pickup sound.

My son Mark spent some time with one in his studio; it does a pretty credible job, and it's subtle, not a beat-you-over-the-head effects box. And yes-- we all wish that someone would make a similar device for URB.

I have spoken with both Fishman (re: their Aura box for guitar) and D-TAR (duncan | turner acoustic research; Duncan Seymour/Rick Turner) and both seemed to intimate that, yes, we're looking into it but the market is probably too small to justify the effort... at least as of the last NAMM show I went to.

I'll poke DTAR again as I'm emailing an order this afternoon.

[BigBeatNut]

Seems like the Acoustic (/mic) modellers for acoustic guitar are a fairly well-established technology.

Does anyone know what they actually DO ? (Besides eq ?)

Do they add resonance in some way, like a very short delay, to simulate a resonant body ?

I'm asking because I've just discovered I'm working with an electronics wiz who seems to keen to explore this idea (something that attempts to simulate a full upright sound from either an EUB or BG) with me. We've got a few ideas on where to start, but any input you have would be appreciated.

Cheers, Andy

[tornadobass]

In a different direction, how about pedals that make a EUB sound like something completely different?

I'm backing readings by 3 Middle East poets and am trying my BugBass bowed, with chorus and distortion

[Amandalyn]

I've been on the same quest to find a more acoustic sound, being that I mostly play bluegrass and americana. I just got a Hartke Bass Attack VXl Tone Shaper Pedal, which I'm trying out on my Eminence EUB with an Acoustic Image Contra Ampmp. So far , it gives a much warmer sound , and the settings allow for a range of tones. Basically it's a preamp/DI, 3 band EQ - that's main feature is the Harmonics control knob which emulate a tube like tone. So far I like the warmer tone, but not sure if this is the "acoustic bass" tone we are looking for.

[dkpawlowski]

Try running through a mixer that has a mid-range sweep control. Fully cut the mids and sweep the controls frequency. You might get something useful. FYI, I've found the cutting the 1200-1600 HZ reduces the scratchiness when bowed. Also, I was able to get a nice gut-like thimp on a Kay by cutting the 600 HZ frequency.

[BigBeatNut]

Originally Posted by BigBeatNut

I've just discovered I'm working with an electronics wiz who seems to keen to explore this idea (something that attempts to simulate a full upright sound from either an EUB or BG) with me.

My friend has just told me that not only is he working on this, but he's roped in an acoustics guy from some university to do tests on a real double bass to determine resonance characteristics amongst other things. He tells me that what he's building will have a 'growl' control and more, so it can be adapted to work with solid basses and EUBs.

Don't know how much I'm paying for this yet, but I think it's going to be worth it

Andy

[matthewbrown]

Originally Posted by abaguer

You'd be better off with judicious string selection and setup than with pedals. You already have an instrument with the appropriate string length, bridge, etc. so IMHO you're more than halfway there.

Hear, hear!

[Marcus Johnson]

Originally Posted by tornadobass

I'm backing readings by 3 Middle East poets and am trying my BugBass bowed, with chorus and distortion

Wow.... I didn't know you guys did things like that in Iowa!

[tornadobass]

Originally Posted by Marcus Johnson

Wow.... I didn't know you guys did things like that in Iowa!

Well, I would say that it was a first in my bass playing experience

[ToneRanger]

Originally Posted by tornadobass

In a different direction, how about pedals that make a EUB sound like something completely different?

That sounds much more interesting than trying to replicate a double bass with things that aren't double basses!
An EUB is a valid instrument on its own which gives lots of possibilities, and I get frustrated by all the people on this list who just want it to be a cheaper/smaller/lighter/louder imitation of something else.
(/rant, back to topic...)

Bowing through a phaser gives a didgeridoo sort of drone in one of my band's songs; I often add a bit of overdrive to accentuate the growl on rockabilly stuff, and get some really extreme funk with a BassBalls pedal - the extra dynamics and fat low end of the EUB (compared to BG) really gets envelope filters going.

[JtheJazzMan]

Originally Posted by ToneRanger

That sounds much more interesting than trying to replicate a double bass with things that aren't double basses!
An EUB is a valid instrument on its own which gives lots of possibilities, and I get frustrated by all the people on this list who just want it to be a cheaper/smaller/lighter/louder imitation of something else.
(/rant, back to topic...)

Bowing through a phaser gives a didgeridoo sort of drone in one of my band's songs; I often add a bit of overdrive to accentuate the growl on rockabilly stuff, and get some really extreme funk with a BassBalls pedal - the extra dynamics and fat low end of the EUB (compared to BG) really gets envelope filters going.

i agree, i realise this is a little late in the thread but its worth sharing my experience.

ive been messing around with a gt-10b with my double bass as well as a NS cr5 and i can say that the sound coming out of an amp will never sound the same as a double bass if you use an eub, or vice versa.

the gt-10 has a solid body -> hollow emulator which i find works well with my double bass. i can get a sound coming out of the amp which sounds very much like playing acoustically. mission accomplished there.

i then set out to see if i could emulate that exact sound through the using using my ned steinberger, but it didnt happen. tonally, the characteristics between the two are very different. theres no point them trying to be one another, as they are not.

youre much better off trying to identify and enhance the natural characteristic of each instrument. i challenge anyone to say that an electric upright cant be soulful, ive heard far more muddy and thuddy double basses to know it swings both ways.

remember, amplified double basses are a mix of the amplified sound plus the acoustic sound. even pickups and an amplifier cant perfectly reproduce the sound, let alone another instrument like an eub.

and give the eub some credit too, they can have an awesome tone as well. its not a double bass and it doesnt have to pretend to be one.

some eub's do manage to come very close to a full body sound, but my philosophy is to buy something for the sound. if you want a full body sound, go for a full sized bass. otherwise accept the eub tone for what it is

[ozrider]

Originally Posted by JtheJazzMan

youre much better off trying to identify and enhance the natural characteristic of each instrument.

I have been playing around with my EBS valvedrive pedal and it does wonders for the Aria SWB lite one I have recently purchased. It warms and fattens up the sound nicely. Doesnt sound so much like an acoustic tone but it sounds like a great EUB.