Ergo Megathread part I

[gscroggin]

Originally Posted by edpal

And with no acoustic chamber arco suffers from a lack of warmth.

Something else is to think about besides placement, amp, etc is the bridge itself and the piezo's. There is a huge frequency and sensitivity response difference between the copper plate style piezo buzzers and, well, all the other styles out there. There's even a huge diffence between say the Radio Shack plates and the one's you'd get from K&K or other vendors.

I've played around extensively with lots of different options, some custom, some store bought. You name the type of conductor, I've probably tried it PVDF piezo film tabs showed the most promise...but were very difficult to work with. I've got a 7 string (F# to C) that Jessie built for himself, so my frequency needs may be a bit more than average.

In the end, I've carved a new bridge out of purpleheart (eek, a pain to work with), that has a flat bottom, as opposed to the two point arch. To my knowledge, the age old arch design came from fine tuning the ability for the bridge to flex and resonate against a hollow body, which eventually moves against the bass-bar and the sound post. The vibrations are asymmetrical in their acoustics in the body I believe. Because of this, sound gets transmitted through the bridge via the extremes of the bridge; the bass end and treble end. I believe this was to balance out the overall tone. Given the lack of mechanics in our Ergo's, all this stuff really goes out the window in my opinion. You need to get all the strings vibrating evenly across the pickup device, period, just like any other electric instrument. With greater frequency response, you can get some of your warmth back. I've also experiemented with adding tone gourds, like on a sitar, for resonance. In the end though I don't find the difference in tone to be worth the effort.

So...I've settled on a combination of piezo pickups from Artec (you can find them on ebay on the cheap). One is a flat copper one that runs between the body and the bridge, and the other is a flexible ceramic one that is mounted on the bridge, closer to the saddle grooves. There's a huge difference in response with these elements, and it really didn't cost me too much to do the experimenting (and I think the Artec's cost under $20 a piece). The long and short of it is that my pizz has way more depth to it, and my arco sounds much richer. Is it the same as a double? No. But it doesn't sound like a fretless either. It's kind of something unto it's own...think Eberhard Weber (not that I can play like him).

Another consideration is bridge/string height. I've carved a few bridges at different heights for different styles. I've got one that's jacked up really high and IMO you'd be hard pressed to tell a difference with jazz style pizz on it and a double when recorded. It's so high though that you can't be doing 32 note runs on it...

Obviously Jessie is able to keep his prices down by not investing too much in the electronics, and I certainly don't fault him for it. I like to screw around with this stuff, so I'm happy to land a beautiful instrument as a serious discount (as compared to other vendors) and work out the electronics on my own

[damonsmith]

Sounds like good ideas. I still say if you get an amp made to handle piezos in the first place it makes a lot of difference.
The other key idea is to dig in (arco or pizz) and get the whole thing vibrating, when you are sending sound from both the bridge and body to the pick up you are going to get more wood in the sound.

[dakpluto]

For those looking for a case, I use this and it works perfectly: http://www.basspro.com/webapp/wcs/st..._SearchResults

[Grateful]

Originally Posted by dakpluto

For those looking for a case, I use this and it works perfectly: http://www.basspro.com/webapp/wcs/st..._SearchResults

That's nice! Is it padded at all inside?

[portaflexer]

Since the Ergo Owners Club thread is now closed, I guess I have to post this here.

Well folks. I sold my Ergo to a fellow TB’er, lucyfur. I guess that means I need to resign my position as Ergo Owners Club chairman (and member #1). As my last act as chairman, I will add lucyfur to the roster as member #32. I have posted the current membership list below. I guess that makes Fishface the new chairman. Congrats.

Again, I can’t say enough good things about Jesse and the Ergo EUB. It is a great instrument. I’m just not playing it enough. Thanks for the good times fellas.

1. portaflexer (Resigned)
2. Fishface
3. mcracer
4. Showdown
5. butchonbass
6. damonsmith
7. MichaelVee
8. FoderaMan77
9. chriss
10. catty (Resigned)
11. guysnape
12. jrduer
13. gscroggin
14. jkdahlman
15. furberg911
16. fretster
17. wigglee
18. FLHippy
19. Kemet09
20. teh.chicken
21. dannster
22. coldsalmon
23. FodderJohn
24. jshilgebass
25. akmusicfreak
26. dakpluto
27. kissmybASS01
28. ClaytonH
29. mbrockett
30. Barry Clark
31. doublebassdude
32. lucyfur

[portaflexer]

What the heck.

1. portaflexer (Resigned)
2. Fishface
3. mcracer
4. Showdown
5. butchonbass
6. damonsmith
7. MichaelVee
8. FoderaMan77
9. chriss
10. catty (Resigned)
11. guysnape
12. jrduer
13. gscroggin
14. jkdahlman
15. furberg911
16. fretster
17. wigglee
18. FLHippy
19. Kemet09
20. teh.chicken
21. dannster
22. coldsalmon
23. FodderJohn
24. jshilgebass
25. akmusicfreak
26. dakpluto
27. kissmybASS01
28. ClaytonH
29. mbrockett
30. Barry Clark
31. doublebassdude
32. lucyfur
33. Grateful

[lucyfur]

As portaflexer mentioned, I just bought his Ergo 4. I'll hopefully have it tonight (on the truck for delivery according to ups.com).

I've read through this entire thread, and have gathered some very useful information. But I do have a question. Seeing that people are tying knots in strings, and adding bridges to the back, has anyone asked Jesse if he could just make the bottom end 5 or 6 inches longer (or whatever length would be needed) so 3/4 strings could be used without having to make the modifications? Sure, it might add a few dollars to the cost, but I would think that would be a better solution.

[TheSuzie]

Originally Posted by lucyfur

has anyone asked Jesse if he could just make the bottom end 5 or 6 inches longer (or whatever length would be needed) so 3/4 strings could be used without having to make the modifications? Sure, it might add a few dollars to the cost, but I would think that would be a better solution.

Technically this is not a good solution unless the shape of the body VS the fingerboard angle were changed a lot. Just extending the strings' afterlength that way would greatly reduce the break angle of the strings over the bridge which would likely really mess up the sound. It would also make the bass more difficult to transport. Nothing is ever as simple as it seems.

Peace,
S

[Taylor Livingston]

Hi guys, thought I'd let you know that I'm selling my Ergo. Very disappointed to have to do this, but sometimes rent comes before music (or so the significant other says...).

http://talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?p=7911754

[scojack]

Originally Posted by gscroggin

Something else is to think about besides placement, amp, etc is the bridge itself and the piezo's. There is a huge frequency and sensitivity response difference between the copper plate style piezo buzzers and, well, all the other styles out there. There's even a huge diffence between say the Radio Shack plates and the one's you'd get from K&K or other vendors.
[snip]

Im really interested in your setup, sounds really good. I cant seem to find the exact item on ebay. I'd be very grateful if you could post a link to them

[gscroggin]

http://www.artecsound.com is the company that makes the piezo's that I settled on. There a whole bunch of stuff on the site, but the models I went with are the PC-85 (flexible) and the PP-637B (solid). The PP series is notably more sensative to ambient vibrations. Depending on your application, this may be either good or bad. The flexible unit doesn't seem to have the same output, as I believe there is an impedance difference. Both sound good though. I cut and spliced both of them to work with 1/4", as they come with a 2.5 "pipe jack", and there weren't any viable options at the time for off the shelf adapters.

I got the units from these peeps on Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/GUITAR-F...__W0QQ_armrsZ1

Very easy to deal with and quick shipping. There's all sorts of different stuff in the Ebay store, so it's worth taking some time to check it out. I checked out your site (in your sig)...good luck with making your EUB :-)

Hope that helps!

G

[foderaman77]

Nice. I like to hear more about bridge and electronics modifications. What piezo pickup manufacturer does Jesse use?

[lucyfur]

Originally Posted by gscroggin

http://www.artecsound.com is the company that makes the piezo's that I settled on. There a whole bunch of stuff on the site, but the models I went with are the PC-85 (flexible) and the PP-637B (solid). The PP series is notably more sensative to ambient vibrations. Depending on your application, this may be either good or bad. The flexible unit doesn't seem to have the same output, as I believe there is an impedance difference. Both sound good though. I cut and spliced both of them to work with 1/4", as they come with a 2.5 "pipe jack", and there weren't any viable options at the time for off the shelf adapters.

I got the units from these peeps on Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/GUITAR-F...__W0QQ_armrsZ1

Very easy to deal with and quick shipping. There's all sorts of different stuff in the Ebay store, so it's worth taking some time to check it out. I checked out your site (in your sig)...good luck with making your EUB :-)

Hope that helps!

G

I just had a look at the PC85. Since it looks like (as is described as) a small piece of coax cable, where did you mount this? On the bridge, in the slot that the bridge sits in, or where? Or is it sturdy enough that it still goes under the bridge?

Tom

[gscroggin]

Originally Posted by foderaman77

What piezo pickup manufacturer does Jesse use?

On my bass (which was one of Jessie's personal ones), it had what looked like the standard Radio Shack style piezo buzzers, which had been cut a bit to fit under the bridge posts.

Originally Posted by lucyfur

I just had a look at the PC85. Since it looks like (as is described as) a small piece of coax cable, where did you mount this? On the bridge, in the slot that the bridge sits in, or where? Or is it sturdy enough that it still goes under the bridge?

I've tried it under the bridge, as well as along the side of the bridge, towards the string slots. They produce two different tones.

Under the bridge, you do need to shim one side equally, and in my case I'm using a flat bottom bridge. On the one that came with the bass (two post), it might be a bit tricky.

On the side of the bridge, I just used non-permanent tape to experiment with.

[foderaman77]

Thanks for the info. The Ergo's electronics is the next project I plan for my Ergos.
Which of Jesse's Ergos did you get from him?

[lucyfur]

Originally Posted by gscroggin

In the end, I've carved a new bridge out of purpleheart (eek, a pain to work with), that has a flat bottom, as opposed to the two point arch. To my knowledge, the age old arch design came from fine tuning the ability for the bridge to flex and resonate against a hollow body, which eventually moves against the bass-bar and the sound post. The vibrations are asymmetrical in their acoustics in the body I believe. Because of this, sound gets transmitted through the bridge via the extremes of the bridge; the bass end and treble end. I believe this was to balance out the overall tone. Given the lack of mechanics in our Ergo's, all this stuff really goes out the window in my opinion. You need to get all the strings vibrating evenly across the pickup device, period, just like any other electric instrument. With greater frequency response, you can get some of your warmth back. I've also experiemented with adding tone gourds, like on a sitar, for resonance. In the end though I don't find the difference in tone to be worth the effort.

I've just ordered an Artec PP557 piezo, as it was the correct width for my 4 string. But now a question about the bridge. I do a lot of woodworking, so I'll be totally comfortable carving my own, with a flat bottom as you suggest. You mention you used purpleheart. Was there something particular about the characteristics of this wood, that you thought it would be the best choice? Or would another hardwood such as maple or walnut work just as well? I've got maple and walnut, but would probably have to order a piece of purpleheart.

Thanks so much for all your advice.

[foderaman77]

Has the new piezo pickup fixed any imbalance in string output response? Also any thoughts on buffer preamps for the new piezo pickup you installed?

[Grateful]

Has anyone tried this case?

It's 66" and has an arrow pouch that looks like it will hold the stand as well. I don't need to travel with it, just local stuff.

[kissmybASS01]

Originally Posted by Grateful

Has anyone tried this case?

It's 66" and has an arrow pouch that looks like it will hold the stand as well. I don't need to travel with it, just local stuff.

Looks like a nice case, but it's gonna heavy and ungainly to move about once you add the bass AND the stand.

[FLHippy]

Originally Posted by Grateful

Has anyone tried this case?

It's 66" and has an arrow pouch that looks like it will hold the stand as well. I don't need to travel with it, just local stuff.

That looks pretty cool, especially since it has a side pocket for the stand but the problem I've always had with the soft cases is that, I actually play my bass out.. and it has to go in the van with all the other gear and it's gonna get ****ed up in a case like that.

from lowes, For $50 you can buy a sewer pipe, end caps, PVC primer & Glue, Pop rivets, washers, a little velcro, and some nylon strap material.

Cut the pipe to length You'll have enough pipe for two cases. Glue on the end caps. cut the assembled pipe in half lengthwise.
I used a nylon guitar strap but any nylon strap material will work well as a hinge.. Use the pop rivets and washers to secure the nylon strap along one edge of the pipe I used rivits which did not poke all the way through. I put rivits every 2 inches.

I used more guitar strap and sewed some velcro to it to make two clasps to keep the case closed.

I drilled holes at the center line and used knotted rope as handles, one on each side of the pipe halves.

That was it for construction... I have a mexican blanket which i lay inside the pipe. Bass goes in strings down, blanket is folder over it and the stand goes on that.

I will add, my stand has a soft padded case which I made out of canvas. It slides into this case which helps to protect the bass from stand abuse.

I'll take photos this evening if anyone is interested in making a case like this.