Ergo megathread part II

[damonsmith]

So the take away here is: if you have something shipped to you and the shipper breaks it expect to take it up with the shipper - make sure it is insured beforehand, etc.

[Pierce1026]

I actually drove to Tennessee and picked up my bass during this guy's ordeal, and from what I understand, he waited a while (as in several days after arrival) before letting Jesse know it had "arrived" broken. Now, I don't know about y'all, but that doesn't seem right.

[KentClarkOnBass]

Ergo-nomicists, please... welcome me to the club! I received this new 5-string burst-pattern yesterday, in perfect condition after shipping. Tuned 'er right up and spent the evening plucking around and being amazed. It sounds great, and I think I can say with complete objectivity that it's the finest-looking instrument ever made! It's covered stem-to-stern with henna patterns--Jesse's daughter (the henna artist) has truly outdone herself, and it looks fantastic fading into the blackness of the burst. At the risk of causing a February rush on Ergo, here are a couple of crummy phone pics.



For any long-time electric players considering going Ergo, if you're like me, prepare to be horrified at how loooong the scale feels and how bad you can sound with no frets to lean on! Pretty obvious, I know. It really is very playable at first, nice feel and action, and the tiny location marker dots help a whole lot. But unless you've got hands the size of dinner plates, you're gonna have to re-learn your scale fingerings. "Minutes to learn, a lifetime to master." I may have more to say after a few weeks (or decades?) of practice.

As for Jesse and Ergo, he gets my vote as a 100% stand-up (!) dude and upright (!) citizen. It was just shy of 8 weeks from first contact to un-boxing, which is exactly what he told me it would be. We had some interesting, informative e-mail discussions and he very tolerantly let me bend his ear as I agonized over action level and henna decoration (in the end, the artist did it with very little in the way of requests or direction from me, and completely blew away my expectations, in the good direction). It couldn't hurt that I paid up front and in full, just a few days after the first e-mail. I probably wouldn't have done that if it hadn't been for all the good comments here. So, YMMV, but for me it was a good experience from start to finish.

[noetical1]

Congratulations , Kent Clark.

The real challenge will be getting your ears in line with your fingerings. Soon enough you'll hear the subtleties

I was surprised at how easily the Ergo EUB responds to the bow... my main reason for purchasing was to begin learning arco style.

I am absolutely pleased with the Ergo!

[kozmikyak]

Just recently received my custom 7-string electric cello from Ergo Instruments. Tuning starts on the top with E (same as the top E of a guitar) down in fifths to Bb (a half step below the low B on a 5-string bass).

Been using two modified Thomastik strings for the bottom two, but I just ordered some custom strings from Octave4Plus.com, we'll see how long that takes and how well it works out. It is certainly playable as is.

My only quarrel with it so far is that with certain amps there's a noticeable subsonic "thump" on each string attack, when playing the bottom three strings. I'd guess that my previous Stinberger 6-string cello had a subsonic filter in its preamp. I've found that I can process the sound with a Sansamp Para Driver DI and an EQ pedal, to the point that it sounds quite natural to my ear. My ear is probably trying to get this to sound like the Steinberger it replaced, so some of my aesthetic sense might be a bit off. I'm going to order a 10Mohm Micro Thumpinator, which should take care of this through amps without a subsonic filter. Many amps already have a subsonic filter, as do most PA systems.

Pictures:



This is at the shop, before I put the strings on it that I like.



7-string headstock! w00t!



I'm partial to the Steinberger shoulder mount system. It screws into a standard brass insert available at most hardware stores. I did the measurements and he accomodated my request.

This is also 1/2" longer than normal cello scale--even that extra half inch (28" long) helps the lower strings speak better. The bottom Bb is going to be a bit floppy and is going to have some minor intonation issues no matter what one does, at this short scale length, but it's quite usable.

I run it into a Sansamp Para Driver DI, into a Digitech GNX3000 rig, into a Carvin B2000's effects return, into 1 or 2 Acme Low B2 cabs with the attenuators set for as flat a frequency response as I can achieve.

[noetical1]

Originally Posted by kozmikyak

...My only quarrel with it so far is that there's a really huge "thump" on each string attack, when playing the bottom three strings. I'd guess that my previous Stinberger 6-string cello had a subsonic filter in its preamp. I also find that there's _way_ too much high end. Then again, it's passive by nature, and I have been able to process it with a Sansamp Para Driver DI and an EQ pedal, to the point that it sounds really close to the Steinberger I used to play. I'm looking at getting an SFX Micro Thumpinator to tame the subsonics...



...I run it into a Sansamp Para Driver DI, into a Digitech GNX3000 rig, into a Carvin B2000's effects return, into 1 or 2 Acme Low B2 cabs with the attenuators set for as flat a frequency response as I can achieve...

kozmikyak:

I too use the SansAmp Para DI to shape the tone of the Ergo... and I go into a GK 800RB... mine's only 4 strings ( E A D G ) , so i don't have gnarly subsonic to deal with...

[kozmikyak]

And subsonics weren't an issue. I think it has more to do with the amps used, than the instrument. Lots of bass heads have a subsonic filter in them already, and lots of professional club PA systems do as well. I use inexpensive PA power amps that don't seem to have this built in.

I'm going to have a Micro Thumpinator built with 10Mohm input impedance, and that should help my sub-par amps deal with the instrument. Yes, the builder said that can be done without much difficulty.

Played a show with Gypsy Lumberjacks at the Whiskey in Minneapolis on Friday, and the PA system had no such issue.

Just wanted to be clear that while it's a noticeable thing with certain gear, it isn't insurmountable, and that lots of people's gear won't have troubles at all.

Another thing -- I've found that Behringer's cheap plastic imitation of the Sansamp Acoustic DI (the older version of the Para Driver DI) is not at all bad sounding. Different, but has the same general effect. In addition to my Sansamp Para Driver DI I have about 4 of the Behringers around, as they're inexpensive and useful for lots of things. They're less sturdy, but the low cost means I can have quite a few sitting around.

[IronSpatula]

Hey Kozmikyak, I checked out the video in your sig. Very cool! I love how you can cover both bass and fiddle duties on your NS. A little off topic, but how hard do you think it would be for someone with DB and guitar experience to adopt electric cello?

I'd also love to check out any clips or videos of your new ergo if/when they become available.

[KentClarkOnBass]

Kozmikyak, that's a beautiful cello. I'll have to try out the Behringer and/or the Para Driver DI. Noetical1, you're right, the Ergo has a really nice woody arco sound, though I have a lot to learn about the dark arts of bowing. Somehow my bowing experience from ten twenty thirty years ago is slow to return! My workhorse amp for my electric is a Fender Bassman 100, along with usually just a tuner or an all-in-one Zoom effects pedal for a little reverb and whatnot. I'm not sure how that'll sound when I set up the Ergo next to a drum set in public, but hopefully it will do the job for the small shows that I do.

It does bring me to a question that somehow never occurred to me before getting the Ergo. For those shows where you want both fretted and upright, what do you use for a quick switch between the two? In an ideal world, my roadies would set up two complete different rigs and I'd just step back and forth between songs (while attractive fans shower the stage with their unnecessary clothing)! In reality, lugging one amp around is curse enough, stage space is limited, and the PA+monitors can only do so much with direct boxes. So what does the peanut gallery recommend? There must be a better way than just muting the amp and moving the cord?

[Marc61]

Anxiously awaiting a 4 string from Ergo. Everything I've read makes it sound like a great deal for the money, and a true working tool .

Pic is of my beast in progress.

[kozmikyak]

IronSpatula: Yeah, that was the Minneapolis band Enchanted Ape, we're on hiatus right now but are starting to book a few things for the coming year. The mostly original repertoire consists of a blend of music similar to Grateful Dead, Allman Brothers, and Little Feat.

Learning to play cello with a bass background isn't so difficult. The fingering system is different than both bass and violin. You end up having to shift positions to get a scale under your fingers at any point, which can mostly be avoided on violin and on the basses. The fingering system is at least rather intuitive and consistent. If you have upright experience, posture needs to change, but the treatment of the left and right arms is similar. I've done some really basic playing on an upright, I'd say that there's lots of knowledge/experience that transfers between the two. The extended range on instruments of 27.5-28" can serve as an excellent low-end for bands using acoustic and well-arranged electric guitar parts.

I'll have videos up within a few months. I'd like to get my tone tweaked up before I go videoing it in operation. I have some festival gigs this spring/summer that should show it in its full bass-role glory, though probably not with the bow. Some Gypsy Lumberjacks shows might demonstrate use of the bow.

I'm starting to experiment with pre-amping the instrument really close to the instrument, with a battery-powered preamp, then processing it afterwards with the Sansamp or Behringer boxes. I have a feeling that some of my boxes aren't of proper input impedance to really do the Ergo justice.

One of our forum members makes a buffer preamp with high-pass filter:

HPF-Pre

[EDIT 12/17/2012] I'm going to experiment with the HPF-Pre pro, the Barcus Berry Gigpro, and the Fishman Pro-EQ Platinum. I should have all of them within my possession for a period of 4-6 weeks and I'll see what I find about them. All 3 have 10Mohm input impedance, volume control, and high pass/low cut features. The Barcus Berry and Fishman have some tone control functions built in, but whether those are necessary remains to be seen. Various people have discussed these on these boards, but not in relation to the Ergo instruments.

I still think I'll feed the output of this preamp into a Sansamp Para Driver DI because I like the tube mic simulation and what it does to bowing. But we'll see; if I'm surprised by the tone right out of one of these preamps maybe I can go without that.

Previous plans to get a Micro Thumpinator at 10Mohm are on hold until I try these devices more tailored towards electric upright basses, though the maker did say he could build me a 10Mohm Micro Thumpinator on request.

[END EDIT]

I once again stress that after last Friday's gig I got it sounding quite well through my amp modeling pedalboard. I'm more focused right now on a portable set of boxes to get it sounding good through the electric guitar and bass amps that are offered up at open stages, which can be a challenge. Those open stages are my networking and I can't always drag my tweaked-up pedalboard into those situations.

[damonsmith]

Piezo pick ups need an amp like a GK combo or better or a preamp to translate. That goes for amplified acoustic instruments as well as the Ergo.
This is VERY important info if you are an electric player looking to use it as a gateway to double bass.
As I have said many times: it is best with double bass technique and double bass amp set ups.

[kozmikyak]

Yes, an acoustic bass amp rig will make these sound more acoustic. Though other amps, with proper buffer, have their uses.

For example, I use old tube guitar combos all the time with piezo-equipped instruments. Of course when I do so I _want_ the instrument to sound like a guitar lead. I get great electric guitar drive out of my cellos this way.

I looked at the specs and found that indeed the Sansamp Para Driver DI has 4.7Mohm impedance, as does the cheap Behringer imitation. High enough to _work_ but not optimally high. One of the buffers/preamps I've ordered to try out therefore should do the trick. The onboard preamp on my previous cellos must have had such a high-impedance buffer in it.

[damonsmith]

Originally Posted by kozmikyak

Yes, an acoustic bass amp rig will make these sound more acoustic. Though other amps, with proper buffer, have their uses.

For example, I use old tube guitar combos all the time with piezo-equipped instruments. Of course when I do so I _want_ the instrument to sound like a guitar lead. I get great electric guitar drive out of my cellos this way.

I looked at the specs and found that indeed the Sansamp Para Driver DI has 4.7Mohm impedance, as does the cheap Behringer imitation. High enough to _work_ but not optimally high. One of the buffers/preamps I've ordered to try out therefore should do the trick. The onboard preamp on my previous cellos must have had such a high-impedance buffer in it.

Yeah, I am planning on getting the FDECK preamp you linked to so keyboard and regular bass amps are more useful on tour.

[kozmikyak]

Update: I'll still try all the various preamps I have coming to me, but a Barcus Berry Gigpro took care of any issues I had. So it seems the pickups really do want to see impedance in the 10Mohm range.

[okcrum]

Originally Posted by damonsmith

So the take away here is: if you have something shipped to you and the shipper breaks it expect to take it up with the shipper - make sure it is insured beforehand, etc.

Well, it's always better if the shipper makes the claim. UPS at least in my experience moves along quickly when the shipper (me) makes the damage claim.

[mike92]

Looking for a decent for for my six string ergo, I see those bow cases recommended but I'm not sure if they'll work with the sixes? Anyone got an idea or something else they'd recommend?

[IronSpatula]

I use a telescoping ABS plastic fishing pole case made by Plano, I think. My 5 fits in there fine, I imagine a 6 would too. It's a solid, durable case but you'll need to wrap the bass in a towel or something so it doesn't get scratched up while sliding in and out.

Check out the sporting goods stores in your area and see if they have anything that will work.

[dakpluto]

Originally Posted by IronSpatula

I use a telescoping ABS plastic fishing pole case made by Plano, I think. My 5 fits in there fine, I imagine a 6 would too. It's a solid, durable case but you'll need to wrap the bass in a towel or something so it doesn't get scratched up while sliding in and out.

Check out the sporting goods stores in your area and see if they have anything that will work.

This is what I use also. Basically what you are looking for is a Flight case for fishing rods. Gives the protection of a hard case that a bow case wouldn't provide.

[Marc61]

Originally Posted by okcrum

Well, it's always better if the shipper makes the claim. UPS at least in my experience moves along quickly when the shipper (me) makes the damage claim.

The buyer can never make the claim as it's the shipper who insures it.I've learned when packing, shipping, receiving delicate items to take pictures of everything. You'll need them should a claim arise