The EUB as it's own voice....

NickyBass · #1 10-01-2009, 02:33 PM

I am getting into the world of electric uprights. I've played acoustic upright for years, and electric for some time as well. I really haven't been approaching the EUB as an electric version of an upright, nor an upright version of an electric. I've been looking at it as a third type of instrument with it's own merits, features, flaws, etc. Sometimes I just want the tone of an electric upright. I'm wondering if this is something that others have thought about.

I can understand the gigging DB player who wants to bring something more portable and durable on a long tour. Etc. There is obviously alot of value in a portable electric instrument that can deliver an acoustic tone at loud volumes without feedback, but I'm looking to discuss the EUB as it's own voice.

For example, the Baby Bass in traditional salsa. These instruments are celebrated for what some might call 'flaws' if they were looking for a realistic double bass tone.

So, where else would you chose the unique tone of an EUB over an upright or electric?

salcott · #2 10-01-2009, 05:24 PM

I use my Merchant Vertical Bass with Western Caravan. We play Western Swing and old style Honky Tonk, as well as originals in those styles. The VB has an "uprighty" sound, but is just "electric" enough to provide a more defined bottom end for the band. I also played it with Dan Hicks and his Hotlicks, and can be heard on "Alive and Lickin' ". I look at EUB as it's own thing, with its own voice.

JtheJazzMan · #3 10-01-2009, 06:36 PM

I did an outdoor concert yesterday on an ns cr5. People loved the novelty of it, loved the tone especially with a bow.

Doesnt get much more real than that!

hdiddy · #4 10-01-2009, 06:37 PM

I'm not crazy about the Ergonomics, but as it's own animal, I would consider one of the NS Design basses - the higher end ones: CR4, CR4M.

Playability is good, sound is decent, and the fingerboard/strings are setup low enough that you can slap them EB style. It is possible to bow them as well. I just never liked the way things are mounted and at one point was considering building a custom mount that would give it upper bouts, similar to what Yamaha has done with the silent basses. The CR4M offers the most in tonal palette as you have a mix of the polar piezo and magnetic pickups.

I had the CR4.... was a little bit of a tough decision to let it go but I committed myself to DB. The tone is inbetween... long scale length but sound is sorta EB'ish... sorta. Build quality is pretty good. Professional instruments and quality throughout. Tough too. Worthy of a serious look if you're looking for something off the beaten path.

Also there is the NS Bass Cello.

Other than NS, I might consider maybe one of the Azola basses.

**Francois Blais** · #5 10-01-2009, 06:37 PM

There is nowadays a lot of EUB brands on the market.
Each has its own sound.
The "unique tone of an EUB" doesn't mean anything to me.
It may even be hard, sometimes, to distinguish an acoustic upright with a pickup from an EUB.
Some EUBs sound more like a BG, some more like a DB.
Add to this the player's technique and you get a very wide palatte of tones.

With all due respect, I won't discuss the unicity of the EUB, as this doesn't mean anything to me.

Best regards,
François

NickyBass · #6 10-01-2009, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Francois Blais

There is nowadays a lot of EUB brands on the market.
Each has its own sound.
The "unique tone of an EUB" doesn't mean anything to me.
It may even be hard, sometimes, to distinguish an acoustic upright with a pickup from an EUB.
Some EUBs sound more like a BG, some more like a DB.
Add to this the player's technique and you get a very wide palatte of tones.

With all due respect, I won't discuss the unicity of the EUB, as this doesn't mean anything to me.

Best regards,
François

I'm talking about EUB's with their own vibe. If you're looking for something that sounds like an upright, that's cool. However, that isn't what I'm going for. I'm looking for something that has it's own unique set of characteristics.

NickyBass · #7 10-01-2009, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hdiddy

I'm not crazy about the Ergonomics, but as it's own animal, I would consider one of the NS Design basses - the higher end ones: CR4, CR4M.

I really like the feel of the NS basses. They are pretty 'un-upright' feeling, but they do have their own thing going on that feels nice to my hands. They sound great too!

I want to try more Azola basses, but they don't pop up too often to try.

Buogon · #8 10-01-2009, 08:31 PM

Try a BSX EUB i have been playing one for years ,i have one of the originals BSX 2000 and use it in many genres. My DB i still use only when i play in a jazz setting.

abaguer · #9 10-01-2009, 10:33 PM

I've used a Messenger EUB for about 16 years. Double bass before that along with bass guitar. With the Messenger the people who hire me hire me to play that instrument. Mainly because it's got a very deep sound but familiar traditional setup feel (real DB bridge, smallish headstock). Sounds good with bands who play a little louder and records great. It sounds like a baby bass with sustain. That deep, dark sound. I also own and Eminence which, like the Merchant Vertical Bass, sounds more woody and "uprighty". The Messenger definitely has a different vibe all it's own. It bows nicely too.

damonsmith · #10 10-02-2009, 12:50 AM

I have an Ergo, which with the right set up, amp and technique is pretty amplified upright sounding. I find myself coveting the NS EUBs for their cold power and more electric sound. I like them a lot.
I tend to treat amplified upright as a different instrument.
I am not so crazy about effects for uprights or EUBs, but I like the way different sounds can be made louder and even have a different timbre altogether.
I have 7 strings so that at least gives me something different to work with.
At this point, I'd rather borrow basses on tour than bring my EUB, but I have done it. I flew to Chicago a few years ago with the bass checked and the GK amp as a carry on.
Still, my interest is more in the EUB as a different instrument.

scojack · #11 10-02-2009, 03:41 AM

I totally agree that for playing live/ recording the EUB should be treated as a different beast. It will never sound exactly like an acoustic bass ...simple as that.
Francois has a point in as much as there is such a wide variety of EUB 'flavours' its not possible to pin down a definitive eub tone.
The one exception being that Baby Bass 'Thump' so loved by Salsa players as Nicky said, its a sound only an eub can make, but its only the eub's fitted with certain pickups that can do it.
Piezo and magnetic pups add even more into the range.
My Eub uses magnetic pups, but i can dial in so many tones with my amp that its sometimes hard deciding what sound to use. I have a variety of different magnetic pups as well that i have built .... single coils/multi coils different windings/magnets etc and each one of these has a completely different sound!
So i feel that there are limitless possibilities as to the context the eub can be adapted for and played in.

My favourite context though is nailed by Mr Weber, that whole ECM type of jazz for me is just perfect for it.
I think the EUB also sits well in the jazz context with electric guitar in fact i personally think it can compliment the electric guitar better than an acoustic bass.

Ian

cnltb · #12 10-02-2009, 03:51 AM

I much agree with the view of the EUB as an instrument that can have quite a unique voice.
Which makes/models are you all using?

JtheJazzMan · #13 10-02-2009, 04:33 AM

The other problem with the comparison "sounds like an acoustic bass" is that it assumes that acoustic DB tone is standard when that simply isnt the case. If you listen to ron carter for example on recordings or even recordings of live gigs, you could easily be convinced either way about what instrument it was.

So perhaps a more functional statement is that the median tone of EUBs in general is different to the median tone of acoustic DB.

But Ill be the first to say Im not worried too much by definitions, I just dont like it when people define their terms ambiguously.

draftsmann · #14 10-02-2009, 05:33 AM

What a great thread!

I was thinking about just this earlier this year at the UK WOMAD festival when watching/listening to Peter Gabriel's set. He preceded his usual material with several unusually-arranged cover versions of others' material, accompanied principally by a string quartet, and with Tony Levin playing arco on EUB (I am fairly sure it was an NS). The arco tone was just spine-tinglingly fantastic in its richness and intensity, and while I appreciate that EQ and the mix are key factors, it occurred to me then that even with the other (conventional acoustic) strings, the bass had a quality that suited the music perfectly, and that wouldn't have been there with a DB.

Of course, in the past the electric piano was invented as a way to make a (slightly) more portable and easily amplified piano; and the electric guitar initially became popular so jazz guitarists could be heard above those horns and drums. It was only later that their full potential as instruments in their own right began to emerge. Maybe the EUB's day is yet to come?

NickyBass · #15 10-02-2009, 06:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scojack

My favourite context though is nailed by Mr Weber, that whole ECM type of jazz for me is just perfect for it.Ian

I really do need to check him out more. What are some good records to pick up?

I should add that I'm not trying to suggest that there is a 'definitive' EUB tone. There are too many options to nail down a certain tone. I suppose that is the way it is for electric bass---from MTD's to P Basses, there are alot of different flavors. However, certain basses are more appropriate for certain styles--the Baby Bass for example--and I'm trying to get a handle on how others are 'exploiting' the unique tone of a a particular EUB--not the tone of all EUBs.

It seems like the NS is being mentioned alot. I have a WAV, and I am starting to think that it might be perfect for modern Latin jazz. It can hint at the thuddy-ness of the Baby Bass, but it has the other piezo mode that has more of a fretless slab vibe---but the notes have so much more weight and authority to them. I really want to pick up a CR now.

Bruce Lindfield · #16 10-02-2009, 07:13 AM

When I saw this thread I immediately thought of Eberhard Weber - his bass is certainly a unique voice!

I saw him play with Jan Garbarek's quartet a couple of years ago and he had a wonderful sound - quite unlike Double Bass or anything else!

So, he was sitting centre stage and was clearly a "featured soloist" in the group - on a par with Garbarek - contributing solos and playing unison lines with the sax - as fluent as any horn player!

I have many recordings and from the first note you hear, it can only be him!

If you want a starter recording - nothing better than this :

NickyBass · #17 10-02-2009, 07:18 AM

Very nice. I will definitely check that out. Thanks.

scojack · #18 10-02-2009, 08:23 AM

Saw him with his own band and then with The Jan Garbarek Quartet must be nearly twenty years ago now, it was truly an uplifting experience.
Little Movements is probably my favourite.
Its great to hear from a fellow fan.
Last I heard he had suffered a stroke and was unable to play. Anybody know how he is now?
IanM

scojack · #19 10-02-2009, 08:24 AM

The notes have so much more weight and authority to them.

Thats a perfect way to describe EUB vs BG imo.

damonsmith · #20 10-02-2009, 11:46 AM

Weber is a beautiful player. I have a gig coming with the reeds play of this Swiss trio:
http://www.koch-schuetz-studer.ch/
It is reeds, 'cello, drums. Mostly electric 'cello and he really deals with the electric 'cello as it's own voice. He gets tons of rich sounds out of it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qCbdczbqno