Fretted EUBs...apart from Barker and NS Bass Cello

honza992 · #1 03-03-2009, 01:02 PM

Hi All

I've always played EBG but have been struggling with RSI in both my hands.

My instinct tells me that an upright would put both my wrists in a more relaxed position, but I recognize my own playing limitations and I've got no particular desire to learn a whole new technique. Also I play fairly standard pop/rock, so the fretless sound maybe isnt that suitable.

I've therefore been looking into fretted uprights. So far I've only found Barker and the NS Bass Cello, which comes in a fretted version. Both are WAY out of my budget.

Does anyone know of anything cheaper?

Peck_Time · #2 03-03-2009, 01:18 PM

Both of those instruments are FEBGOAS (fretted electric bass guitars on a stick) not electric upright basses.

You could take your electric bass and rotate it 90 degrees?

The bass player from the Peddlers does that.

Bob Gollihur · #3 03-03-2009, 01:27 PM

I'll agree on the Barker but not the NS Design fretted Bass Cello. Unlike the Barker and other FEBGOAS, the fretted BassCello is identical to the fretless version, both have a rounded fingerboard and can be bowed.

A true FEBGOAS could be bowed, too, but only if you want to hear all the strings at once.

Disclaimer: I sell the BassCellos and but have only barked at the Barker

akmusicfreak · #4 03-03-2009, 02:00 PM

IMHO if you buy a cymbal stand and tom mount hardware. You can mount the receiver hardware to your current Bass Guitar and stick it on a cymbal stand vertically, you should be able to set the stand for standing or sitting while playing.

Maybe this is a low cost alternative for you and one more suitable to your needs.

Goodluck

reedo35 · #5 03-03-2009, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by akmusicfreak

IMHO if you buy a cymbal stand and tom mount hardware. You can mount the receiver hardware to your current Bass Guitar and stick it on a cymbal stand vertically, you should be able to set the stand for standing or sitting while playing.

Maybe this is a low cost alternative for you and one more suitable to your needs.

Goodluck

Exactly! what's the point in a fretted EUB if all you're doing is playing slab bass vertically?

honza992 · #6 03-03-2009, 04:17 PM

Ummmm....the first line of my original post may answer that.

reedo35 · #7 03-03-2009, 04:57 PM

You also said your teacher recommended a new technique, but you don't really want to take the time to learn it.
If you are struggling with RSI, playing EUB isn't going to help much, and if you do not use correct positioning, and playing technique, it could just make things worse. Sorry you are in pain.

duckyincarnate · #8 03-03-2009, 05:52 PM

I just came back from my first ever upright lesson - and as much as I love playing this thing, relaxed is not a word I would use to describe the experience. It really is a physical challenge when you start out!

If you are injury-prone, you are better of with a bass guitar in my opinion.

akmusicfreak · #9 03-03-2009, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by honza992

Hi All

I've always played EBG but have been struggling with RSI in both my hands.

My instinct tells me that an upright would put both my wrists in a more relaxed position, but I recognize my own playing limitations and I've got no particular desire to learn a whole new technique. Also I play fairly standard pop/rock, so the fretless sound maybe isnt that suitable.

I've therefore been looking into fretted uprights. So far I've only found Barker and the NS Bass Cello, which comes in a fretted version. Both are WAY out of my budget.

Does anyone know of anything cheaper?

I think you guys are missing what the OP is asking.

The OP is looking to play a BG vertically and was looking for a cheaper solution than the bass cello or barker bass.
So with this in mind I think the cheapest thing to do would be to mount a BG vertically on a stand. Or find an instrument stand that would let you do the same thing.

reedo35 · #10 03-03-2009, 08:11 PM

You said that in post #4. Maybe he missed it.

zeytoun · #11 03-03-2009, 08:17 PM

Your cheapest solution is to change the position you use to play EBG, as AKmusicfreak points out.

When I play EBG, I find the standard position (with the strap over the head and right arm) very awkward. Instead, I play with my left arm through the strap. The guitar hangs almost upright, and it's much more comfortable.

(not that this is useful to you, but it also makes it easier to play with the fingers less perpendicular to the strings, making a rounder sound more natural to come by)

davidAaronCarte · #12 03-03-2009, 09:05 PM

Make sure you're playing with straight wrists and you'll be fine with your plank
It's one of the first things I teach my classical guitar students

damonsmith · #13 03-04-2009, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidAaronCarte

Make sure you're playing with straight wrists and you'll be fine with your plank
It's one of the first things I teach my classical guitar students

Yeah, it all sounds like a waste of time. It sounds like regardless, you are going to need to "learn a whole new technique" be it proper, ergonomic BG or double bass. I hate to have to say it, but if you are too lazy for those options, music isn't for you.

honza992 · #14 03-04-2009, 04:30 PM

Well thanks for the support damonsmith, I hope you never find yourself in the same situation

I've been playing music of one sort or another since I was 5, so I think it would be fair to say that I'm finding having RSI very difficult. It's possible that my "learn a whole new technique" comment was poorly worded. I guess I meant that if I was learning to play in a new position, I didn't want to have the added complication of learning a fretless instrument, particularly when stylistically fretless fits in less well the the type of music I normally play.

My thanks to those who offered actual advice. Very much appreciated. Some things to think about.

Bob Gollihur · #15 03-04-2009, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by honza992

Well thanks for the support damonsmith, I hope you never find yourself in the same situation

I've been playing music of one sort or another since I was 5, so I think it would be fair to say that I'm finding having RSI very difficult. It's possible that my "learn a whole new technique" comment was poorly worded. I guess I meant that if I was learning to play in a new position, I didn't want to have the added complication of learning a fretless instrument, particularly when stylistically fretless fits in less well the the type of music I normally play.

My thanks to those who offered actual advice. Very much appreciated. Some things to think about.

RSI and other factors that affect our ability to play is a giant drag. I've been fighting it the last several years and it has caused me to limit URB play. I still type using a bizarre split keyboard and follow a number of practices (and consume a few meds) that enables me to function.

I encourage you and others that experience it to research the topic extensively before consulting a physician or specialist. I've gathered a number of good on-line resources including some directed at musicians on my Double Bass Links page, see http://www.gollihurmusic.com/links.cfm#linkCat10 for the Musicians Health and Injuries section.

I say this as my own experience was sketchy (and documented in an article in Double Bassist magazine), as I found professionals who were not exactly that. Took me a while to find the right guy. Like anything else, it's good to know a little about cars before consulting a mechanic.

Thankful birds · #16 03-04-2009, 05:25 PM

Wow. Some pretty harsh words on here for a guy who just wanted a suggestion. Anywho... Have you tried http://www.ergoinstruments.com ? They make uprights, but also make fretted bass viols. I would be willing to bet that they could accomodate you. Their uprights start at $650 and viols at $700, so not too bad. Hope that helps!

buddyro57 · #17 03-04-2009, 07:10 PM

I agree with Thankful: This guy isn't looking for a sermon- he's just trying to find a manner of playing that doesn't aggravate his condition. After all, who says that the double bass is an ergonomically effective or efficient design- plenty of people have all kinds of problems with them- EVEN if they are classically trained and have all of the initiative in the world.
To Honza, keep looking- you will find an instrument and/or manner of playing that allows you to function without pain. it will probably be a lengthy process but good luck.
I also agree that the Ergo might have something for you, and that studying with a cellist might help.
There is more than one way to skin this cat.

damonsmith · #18 03-04-2009, 07:29 PM

Physical problems are something that looms over all of us, I actually opened the thread thinking I'd mention the Ergo viola da gambas. RSI aside, coming over to the double bass forum where most of us struggled to acquire both our instrument and our technique and then to say you don't want to spend money or learn new technique is normally going to get you more grumpy responses than just mine!
Condolences on the RSI, that is truly a drag. Still, it is going to take commitment, probably more than before, not less. So stand I by my response.

Peck_Time · #19 03-04-2009, 09:49 PM

Honza992 in quotes, my response underneath.

Quote:

Hi All

-Gidday.

Quote:

I've always played EBG but have been struggling with RSI in both my hands.

-Bummer.

Quote:

My instinct tells me that an upright would put both my wrists in a more relaxed position

-Possibly, if you are playing in a relaxed manner with good technique.

Quote:

but I recognize my own playing limitations and I've got no particular desire to learn a whole new technique.

-Ok, sounds like Double Bass isn't for you.

Quote:

Also I play fairly standard pop/rock, so the fretless sound maybe isnt that suitable.

-Ok you don't like the 'fretless' sound.

Quote:

I've therefore been looking into fretted uprights.

Cool, but a fretted upright bass would have a longer scale length, higher tension strings and therefore demand a different technique.

Quote:

So far I've only found Barker and the NS Bass Cello, which comes in a fretted version. Both are WAY out of my budget.

-The Barker is a bass guitar rotated 90 degrees, and the Bass Cello (which sounds like the perfect solution for you), is out of your price range. The NS Bass Cello has a 34 inch scale which also takes it out of double bass technique territory.

Quote:

Does anyone know of anything cheaper?

An electric bass rotated 90 degrees with some sort of mounting/ strap device would seem to be what you're asking for.

dougness · #20 03-10-2009, 04:20 PM

I've struggled with carpal tunnel syndrome in my right wrist. I had a luthier build me a fretted, electric, upright, bass much like the Barker. It is definitely easier on the right wrist and eliminated all my problems there. The bass cost me about the same as the Barker, so it's out of your range. If your fretting hand/arm is a problem too, a vertical solution won't help since playing still involves pressing and holding down the strings.

Another option is to purchase the NS Designs Boomerang strap that is made for the NS Bass Cello. If you're willing to drill a good size hole in the back of your basses, they'll send you the inserts to mount in your bass so you can use the strap. The Boomerang strap allows you to rotate the bass to the best playing position, meaning anywhere from horizontal to completely vertical. I bought one but haven't been able to drill that hole in my basses yet. I've modified my technique to be closer to Gary Willis's to save my wrist. After almost 40 years of playing, it's a battle to not fall into the old bent-wrist habit, but if you're determined to keep playing, it's do-able.