Just a few days with an EUB - already getting heckled

[Taylor Livingston]

I got my Ergo a few days ago and it's a lot of fun. Already though, I have had 2 instructors and 1 non-musician give me guff over getting an EUB rather than a "real bass". The non-musician used to date a bass player, so she obviously has just taken on all of his prejudices, but still, she told me it was the lamest thing she'd ever heard of (a fan of hyperbole), although she never saw or heard the actual bass. I need to get some rosin and I'm fearing talking to my only local doublebass dealer, expecting to have him talk to me like I'm an idiot for playing the instrument I do. I have been looking for instructors, but the responses I've received have all been of the "What? Why?" type, sometimes going into great detail about why this was a dumb move.

Is this something you guys get a lot? I know my reasons for getting an EUB, and there really was no other choice for me. I have no regrets. But it is a little nerve-racking having everybody look at me like a fool for playing a particular instrument. I guess this is what it's like to be a claves player.

[svenbass]

Well, it comes with the territory I guess - my EUB always gets some funny looks, and usually a short grilling ensues. I don't really mind, but it's not like it's that weird.

As far as finding a teacher, anyone giving you guff isn't going to be worth the effort - they are either a snob, or genuinely don't feel they can help you. I'm sure you'll find someone that will take you seriously. Just think, when you get cookin' on it, folks will remember you as that cat with the crazy bass!

good luck and have fun!!

[bongomania]

Originally Posted by conical johnson

I guess this is what it's like to be a claves player.

I've gotten that one a lot. I'm a bongo drummer, and that gets enough "are you effing serious?" comments and sideways looks by itself, but in addition bongoceros are expected to be experts on all the percusion menor such as claves, cowbells, guiros, maracas, etc. But people have a very hard time keeping from laughing when I talk about what I play.

[Taylor Livingston]

Thankfully I am not interested in getting gigs, doing sessions, etc. I got an EUB as a compositional tool, to be able to write more lyrical string parts. I pity the guys who are out there trying to get band leaders to hire them with this instrument that apparently everybody thinks is stupid.

But, just to keep it real, I would probably react similarly to someone who told me they were a serious bongo player. I guess we all have our biases.

[ToneRanger]

When players have struggled to cart a huge wooden box around the countryside for years, they tend to get defensive when someone decides they can get by with a minimalist solution. They also assume that you're trying to get a perfect double bass sound from something that's not a 'real' double bass.
In my situation, there's no way I could fit a double bass and an amp in my car, but I did want the thump and growl of long scale strings. I don't pretend that my bass sounds like an acoustic URB, but it sounds a lot better than most amplified URBs, and does so without any risk of feedback at high volume.
I've had a lot of positive response from audiences and other (non-URB) musicians, and am lucky to have a local violin/bass maker who's quite interested and supportive.

[endorka]

I've had very little grief from people when using my EUB, and indeed most of it has come from bass players - in my experience, the majority other musicians/band leaders don't care too much, as long as it sounds good and is played well. And that's the crux of the matter.

Sure, many of them would prefer a traditional full bodied DB, but I've found that most would prefer the EUB to a bass guitar by a long stretch.

Jennifer

[jgbass]

I have, surprisingly, received the most positive of comments for using my Palatino in a college big band this summer, and also a summer combo class. This is really the first time I have taken the EUB out anywhere for gig situations.

I have people I have not even met come up to me and comment on the look of the bass, and, most importantly, on the sound. They love it, sometimes they say they want one, I am just totally surprised. Some of the students play out a lot as well. The more I think about it, the EUB is ideal for a big band. One still gets the DB feel and fingerboard, some of the DB sound, but somehow the sound cuts through better and it helps it that it does not take up that much space.

I am sharing bass duties with an electric player in the summer big band, and, personally, I like the sound of the EUB better. Less intense, less sustain, more ability to go with dynamics, etc, but really cuts through. No issues with feedback if I increase the volume. We are doing a lot of Latin tunes, so it lends itself well for those tunes. The EB player does the Basie tune, but somehow it just does not sound that good on EB. Would have been better on an EUB to get that plunk sound.

As far as the combo situation, it is simply just fine, and the same, surprisingly, positive comments. We are doing some latin tunes in the combo, so I think it lends itself well.

I have not even started upgrading my Palatino with better strings, etc., so I think this is going to turn to be an instrument I am going to start using more and more, even in jazz combo gigs.

[damonsmith]

Originally Posted by conical johnson

I got my Ergo a few days ago and it's a lot of fun. Already though, I have had 2 instructors and 1 non-musician give me guff over getting an EUB rather than a "real bass". The non-musician used to date a bass player, so she obviously has just taken on all of his prejudices, but still, she told me it was the lamest thing she'd ever heard of (a fan of hyperbole), although she never saw or heard the actual bass. I need to get some rosin and I'm fearing talking to my only local doublebass dealer, expecting to have him talk to me like I'm an idiot for playing the instrument I do. I have been looking for instructors, but the responses I've received have all been of the "What? Why?" type, sometimes going into great detail about why this was a dumb move.

Is this something you guys get a lot? I know my reasons for getting an EUB, and there really was no other choice for me. I have no regrets. But it is a little nerve-racking having everybody look at me like a fool for playing a particular instrument. I guess this is what it's like to be a claves player.

I play an Ergo 7 string, only one grumpy clarinet player gave me grief so far. Most people are into it, and I even get a fair amount of requests for it in other people's projects.
I played mine last night at a gig and people were really into it.
Just make sure to get a good amp, like a little GK or better and work on your technique so you get a good sound.

[jgbass]

Originally Posted by damonsmith

Just make sure to get a good amp, like a little GK or better and work on your technique so you get a good sound.

I think these two factors are most important in this instrument being judged positively. Of course, there will always be some who have their minds closed to this. Obviously that is happening with the person who started this thread.

Proper technique is essential on this instrument. I have read many of the posts in this section, ideas for upgrades, complaints about sound, etc. And, I am wondering if the problem is really the instrument or if it is a lack of proper technique issue. I think it is essential that one evaluate their own technique in making a judgment about an instrument's sound and preferably get a second option as well.

I have been in the trenches quite awhile, with different teachers of differing viewpoints over the years working and working on good technique. The DB technque translates to EUB. And, certainly much more than any EB technique could. I think it is essential that one learning the EUB find an open minded teacher who will teach the full range of DB techniques on the EUB.

This Palatino is an inexpensive instrument, it currently has no upgrades, except a wrapped up pair of socks stuffed in the bottom area to minimize sustain of the strings, but I play it like a regular DB. But if one is moving from EB to EUB, it does take awhile to acclimate to this instrument, learning and working on good technique with a teacher is essential.

If you have not found a teacher, I would keep looking, and/or get out and observe who is playing EUB in your community at gigs and ask these folks if they teach and/or for some referrals.

[abaguer]

I've been gigging with either upright, Knuston Messenger, or Eminence for last 17 years and most people don't care as long as it sounds good. I even used the Knutson in when doubling in the pit and the string players preferred the Knutson because since I was the only bass player they liked the bottom it provided both pizz and arco. I must say I prefer to teach someone on double bass but if they only had an EUB I certainly wouldn't deny them instruction; I would just steer them in the upright direction because I feel playing acoustically teaches you how to develop a sound. Getting a good sound acoustically transfers to EUB's quite well because you learn how to pull the sound out.

[Bruce Lindfield]

I played EUB - NS CR5 - for a few years and got lot of comments about it - mostly along the lines of "what is that"!?

So people asked if it was a sculpture, was I actually going to play that!!??

Most Jazz teachers were a bit contemptuous and especially the DB teachers!

So one said to me that you have a lot of the difficulties of the DB - getting good intonation, long scale etc. - but none of the advantages - ie. real acoustic sound which is coming from the instrument itself.

The funny thing is that about 2 years ago I bought a DB and now I agree with them - although when I only had the EUB (and BGs) I was vehemently opposed!

So I keep the EUB as an indestructible back-up - but I only play DB and really love it and feel it is so much better than the EUB in every respect!

On the other hand, I don't regret playing the EUB - as it was a useful transition for me. So after playing BG for many decades, I just couldn't face the idea of going back to being a total beginner with DB !!

The EUB allowed me to use some BG techniques, but at the same time develop my upright skills. And the EUB rewards this - so my finding was that the more I played it like a DB the better it sounded and when I used BG techniques - it sounded like fretless BG!

So when I was playing with others I could use my experience to get me through and not hold anybody back - and I could improve my upright skills at the same time.

But I knew that in the end I would not be able to get the sound I wanted, without a real DB and so was able to take the plunge when I felt ready, after playing EUB for a few years.

This may not work for everybody and I think everybody has to find their own path.. so I appreciate that if a teacher is to give the best advice - then they are justified in saying you might as well get a real DB as generally I now feel that it is the only way to get that sound.

[Taylor Livingston]

Thanks for all your thoughts. I agree that the only way to sound like a DB is to play a DB, but for my purposes this is really irrelevent. I have no interest in being a player of an instrument anymore, in getting gigs, playing on people's records, etc. I am really only interested in composing. To that end, the EUB is a tool to write better string parts than I can on keyboard or BG. I will have a real DB player play when this music is recorded.

I actually plan to lie about it the next time it comes up - when I go to buy rosin, I'm going to pretend I have a DB, because I'm already tired of this condescension. I miss those days when I was just a bass guitarist, and DB guys didn't even take me seriously enough to deride me.

[abaguer]

Well then EUB probably works great for your needs. At the end of the day you play what's appropriate for the gig anyway so go for it.

The heckling part reminds me of when I got my upright neck repaired at a local shop. Some older guy walked in and said "aah those acoustic instruments are the only real instruments" which immediately got the back up of the sales guy who retorted with "what so electric guitars aren't real instruments" to which aforementioned gentleman said no, only archtops and classical" to which the sales guy came back with "well those aren't real either, only the lute. . . and so on.

[Bruce Lindfield]

Why not buy rosin mail order off the net - it's cheaper that way as well!!

[WillBuckingham]

Originally Posted by conical johnson

I need to get some rosin and I'm fearing talking to my only local doublebass dealer, expecting to have him talk to me like I'm an idiot for playing the instrument I do.

Go see Sal Giardina (http://www.salvadorgiardina.com/). He builds EUB's -in addition to all kinds of acoustic and electric instruments- and would probably be thrilled to have your business.

I think I remember him having Pop's rosin in stock at some point.

-Will

[The Mushrat]

You are who you are. You play what you play. Play it well and to hell with the rest.

[hdiddy]

I've used both an NS and my Yamaha in mostly classes. The Yamaha has seen a gig and everybody is quite perplexed and intrigued by it. Ppl know that these are my backups and that I only use them for certain settings. I only get compliments on the sound I get. Ppl acknoledge they're not the same as a DB but are impressed with the sound I get out of them I guess. Definitely alot of quirked eyebrows and "what's that?" questions.

I haven't gotten heckled yet. I'm sure it'll happen eventually.

[Bruce Lindfield]

Originally Posted by hdiddy

I've used both an NS and my Yamaha in mostly classes. The Yamaha has seen a gig and everybody is quite perplexed and intrigued by it. Ppl know that these are my backups and that I only use them for certain settings. I only get compliments on the sound I get. Ppl acknoledge they're not the same as a DB but are impressed with the sound I get out of them I guess. Definitely alot of quirked eyebrows and "what's that?" questions.

I haven't gotten heckled yet. I'm sure it'll happen eventually.

I have had the same - so one guy said it was amazing how much sound I got out of it when so much was missing!!

[buddyro57]

I always take the bait on this subject. I have played DB for 35 years, electric for 40. I have experimented with various EUBs for the last 10. I have owned 2 BSXs, a Carruthers, a custom-made Schwestka, and 2 Ergos. In that time I also kept an Eminence for a 2-week trial, after which I returned it (now though I regret that, the Eminence was the best of the lot). The turning point for me was buying a really nice 100-year old German DB and continually having someone bash into it, or damage it getting to or from the gig. The other thing that greatly influenced the decision was hearing several great upright players sound terrible, either as a result of playing in a venue unfriendly to bass (most recital halls are), or going through a PA system. A great example would be Gary Peacock playing with Jarrett in Symphony Hall in Chicago. Terrible room for jazz to begin with, and if you were not sitting directly in front of one of the suspended monitors, you heard nothing but the scratchy Underwood sound. With almost all of the EUBs I have played, the out-front sound is just as good as most of the amplified DB sounds I have heard.
So- why all of the prejudice against the EUB? I guess it is tradition; the DB is the instrument we associate with jazz, and if it is missing, then folks are let down. 90% ormore of the classic jazz cuts are with DB, BUT in a controlled recording environment, and that makes all of the difference. I saw the Basie Band in 1990 with Cleveland Eaton playing a Clevinger, of course he would never record with it, but in a live situation, the bass sounded fine, and was probably much more consistent from room to room than the wood. Of course, in the end it all comes down to how the bass sounds, you can get a great sound from an EUB and a terrible sound from a DB- it depends on the operator to a great degree. With regards to other musicians reactions; I always have to smile when I hear a drummer who may have 1000. invested in his kit, ask me why I did not bring my 8000. DB to play a 75. gig in a club with no bandstand. AND when is the last time one of you bitched at the piano player for bringing an electric piano, or for NOT bringing one and playing a terrible out of tune spinet that happens to be in the club? Finally, I am old and do not need the $, so if anyone says anything to me now about MY choice of instruments, I am more than happy to start packing up. Some band leaders do not call me because they know that I will show up with an EUB, and that's fair enough.

[nathanmcnathan]

EUBs can sound like acoustic basses, but not if played like this:
http://www.nedsteinberger.com/artist...e=Rob%20Derhak
Notice the BG-style 3rd-finger.