My best option for Jazz with no/reduced pain

SteveC · #1 02-18-2009, 05:19 PM

I used to play upright in symphony and for jazz. I don't any more for a variety of reasons, one being pain. I don't think it's my technique - I hope not as I teach orchestra for my day job.

I'd like to use something other than a fretted/fretless electric for jazz again, but there's the pain issue. I had an Azola for a while, but my hand/arm still hurt. I'm guessing it's the fatter neck lik eon an upright.

Is there an EUB that has a smaller/thinner neck - more like an electric - but still has a decent sound for jazz? I'm going to try a friends NS Wav but I think it will yield the same results.

longfinger · #2 02-18-2009, 08:07 PM

I find that my Aria SW04 is easier to play that a regular DB mainly because the strings are nylon wrapped (much easier on my pizz hand), and are at a lower tension with a slightly lower string height than found on many a DB (easier for my left hand). This makes it easier for me to play. (I notice this more in my right hand)

What kind of pain are you experiencing? Where?

What experimenting have you done in regards to your sound/setup with lower tension strings and a lower string height?

SteveC · #3 02-18-2009, 08:15 PM

I haven't done a lot of experimenting. The pain is usually in the top of my hand, just behind my knuckles, and a little in my forearm.

Buogon · #4 02-18-2009, 08:28 PM

Don't be too sure that it is not your technique. Improper way of holding the bass can lead
to pain in hands, forearm etc. The setup of your bass can lead to this also.
Improper warmups ,the way you attack the bass in the positions.
You can check out books like simandl or find another teacher to see if you are doing
something wrong.

longfinger · #5 02-18-2009, 11:53 PM

Try this experiment... it's free and easy to do.

Start fresh and after a good body stretch and warm up.
Tune your bass down a 1/2 step to Eb, Ab, Db, Gb.
Play it for a while and note your body's reaction to it. What happens?

akmusicfreak · #6 02-19-2009, 02:07 AM

Hello Steve,

I just recently bought an Ergo EUB, it has a pretty slim neck, and I find it real comfy to play. It also has a pretty nice "jazzy" sound to it. I'm real happy with it. Maybe someone in your area has one to check out. There is also a thread in the EUB section here for the ERGO. you can also check out the Ergo website he has the dimensions to his instruments on the site.

"All of our instruments feature standard (or more accurately, "average") dimensions and spacings. Four strings feature 1" airspace between the strings at the bridge, and a 1 1/2" wide nut; fives have 7/8" airspace at the bridge, with a 1 13/16" wide nut; and sixes have 13/16" airspace at the bridge, with a 2 1/8" wide nut. All instruments are fully bowable (a compound radius starting at 6 1/4" at the bridge is used on the playing surface of the instruments) and have a 42" (3/4) scale length.

Also because of the innovative pickup design*, any strings can be used -- including gut, synthetic, or steel."

http://www.planadmin.us/ergo/

**Francois Blais** · #7 02-19-2009, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveC

I haven't done a lot of experimenting. The pain is usually in the top of my hand, just behind my knuckles, and a little in my forearm.

Which hand, the right or left? (assuming you play righty)

SteveC · #8 02-19-2009, 09:28 AM

My left hand - fingering. Right is fine.

I can't experiment much as I don't have a bass at my disposal.

Jason Hollar · #9 02-19-2009, 09:36 AM

Maybe something with a shorter scale?

I've been looking for a Kydd Carry On 30" because I remember it being crazy easy to play. Also -- I've always had GAS for something like a Rob Allen Mouse short scale fretless. They look like a dream to play and tote around.

You may find the WAV has a pretty large neck -- which was my impression. Great action, but not the easiest neck to play on.

dakpluto · #10 02-19-2009, 09:42 AM

Ergo for the most painless EUB, in my opinion.

etoncrow · #11 02-19-2009, 09:54 AM

You might also check a barker Bass: http://www.barkerbass.com/index.html

Or, get tested for arthritis; celebrex helped me considerably

SteveC · #12 02-19-2009, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason Hollar

Maybe something with a shorter scale?

I've been looking for a Kydd Carry On 30" because I remember it being crazy easy to play. Also -- I've always had GAS for something like a Rob Allen Mouse short scale fretless. They look like a dream to play and tote around.

You may find the WAV has a pretty large neck -- which was my impression. Great action, but not the easiest neck to play on.

I did think the WAV had a large neck.

I was thinking shorter scale, too. I know it's a compromise in tone from the "full" scale, but the whole "EUB" thing is a compromise anyway.

I played a Kydd way back when they first came out at a music educator convention. Might be an option. I saw one on eBAy for a reasonable price. Might be worth a try.

longfinger · #13 02-19-2009, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveC

My left hand - fingering. Right is fine.

I can't experiment much as I don't have a bass at my disposal.

Bummer about that. High tension fat steel strings with a high string height can be difficult on the fingers to play. Some people go for that setup when they are young and strong to get a big loud sound. Though as we age, we eventually have to change something to accommodate our current physical reality. This happens all the time in sports, dance, and other athletic activities. Gut and nylon strings are often more easy on the fingers. Lower string tension, lower string height and softer string material make a big difference in the physical aspect of fingering notes on a DB or EUB.

Do you want to bow the new bass at all? If so, not all EUB's have a proper curved fingerboard and bridge. (Even jazzers bow sometimes)

Any any EUB, if you put on the same fat strings with the same string tension and the same string height as you had before on your DB, I think you'll have the same problems as before. Nothing has changed for your hands.

Is your LH pain is from "stretching" to get the right interval spacing? Or is your LH pain arising from the force needed to press down on the fingerboard to hold a pitch?

SteveC · #14 02-19-2009, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by longfinger

Do you want to bow the new bass at all? If so, not all EUB's have a proper curved fingerboard and bridge. (Even jazzers bow sometimes)

Any any EUB, if you put on the same fat strings with the same string tension and the same string height as you had before on your DB, I think you'll have the same problems as before. Nothing has changed for your hands.

Is your LH pain is from "stretching" to get the right interval spacing? Or is your LH pain arising from the force needed to press down on the fingerboard to hold a pitch?

I may want to bow a little here and there, ballads, change up a solo every now and again.

I don't know that EUB's will be any better. The normal scale ones will be the same as a regular bass, and short scale EUB's aren't much more than an EB held at a different angle.

My LH pain is a combination. I have very small hands and pudgy fingers. Even playing my 35" Q5 electric is "uncomfortable" every now and again.

Just don't have bass player hands I guess.

tedw · #15 02-19-2009, 11:36 PM

I found a physical therapist in Seattle who works with performing artists. I thought I had good technique but he helped me see how I could change in a way that took the pain away.

Jason Hollar · #16 02-22-2009, 10:41 AM

That one Kydd model is only a 30" scale. It also has super low action and you could use lighter strings on it too...plus it's got a decent bowing radius -- I think...

I want one for cruise ship & air travel gigs!