NS Design WAV4 megathread part II

[Francois Blais]

Originally Posted by dbassnut

Was thinking of getting the obligatos but am not sure on how long they'd last.

From the comments on the Strings forum, it seems most players replace them within one year.

If you don't mind some inexpensive alternatives suggestions, you can also look at the D'Addario Preludes (darker than the Helicore Orchestrals) and Corelli 380's.

Regards,
François

[dbassnut]

Hi Francois, Thanks.

[Hobby]

So... is there possibly any "sum up / summary" of the strings recomended for NS WAW4 anywhere (searched for this but couldn't find any)

I'm looking for "the most DB sounding" medium/light tensioned strings suitable for both pizz and arco, for my NS WAW4

[Matthijs]

Originally Posted by fred pratt

I'm still agonizing over what to do about tone. Matthijs and SebbyNC, I love the sounds of you're getting and wish I could get something close.

Thanks Fred, sorry to react this late.

I'm very happy with the modified electronics in my WAV. I find myself using the new middle setting most of the time. A big part of the sound is the different cap on the tone control. That was a big improvement for the pizz sound.

That said, In the last weeks I've used the wav for the very first time on larger gigs with my own amp. Before that I only played the wav on rehearsals and on a regular gig in a small café. In both cases I played over the existing, ancient, backline. On larger gigs I stuck to my DB.
On these last gigs I was pleasantly surprised. This was the first time I heard the WAV in a big room with a hard working amp. The sound was big and organic. Not a piëzo on a stick at all. I think the now well played in obligato's also help.
On one of those gigs we dubble billed with another band. The drummer, bassist and guitarplayer all came by individually, asking me what the hell that bass was and complementing me on the sound. I'm now seriously considering leaving my DB at home more often. I should make a live recording soon to let you hear what I'm bragging about.

I'm a happy camper, though I'm still not quite satisfied with the sound in the region of the c up to the f on the g string. In that part the sound is narrow and a bit dreary. I do not think it's a wolf tone, but the effect is a bit similar. It might be a setup thing. I can't get the setup to be exactly as on my DB. The truss rod is completely loose and still the neck is a bit to straight to my liking. Any ideas?

And a real road test issue: The endpin stand is deteriorating and not really fit for road use. The rubber tip is worn, the belly rest has movement and there is a disturbing distortion in the central attachment to the bass. The last bit because of me having to fasten it extremely hard because I keep on pulling the neck towards me. I've fixed that now by adding a pin-and-hole construction preventing the bass from twisting on the stand.

[fred pratt]

Thanks, Matt.

I've actually had a really good week with my WAV, with one exception. I figured out that playing pizzicato style with the toggle switch set on the arco setting absolutely does not work for me at all. For me arco works for arco and pizz for pizz, though I have to roll off the treble almost all the way. At Saturday's gig I got compliments for both looks and sound, and I just plugged straight into the Micro 300 without any other type of preamp.

There's still too much sustain ---more like a a bass guitar than an upright, even with Corelli's-- so I suspect I'll have to go with Obligatos or something along those lines.

In terms of modification, I'm less interested in blending the pizz and arco settings than I am in making modifications that give more warmth and less treble in the pizz setting --along the lines of what Craig Walsh did in Part I of the megathread.

Unfortunately, I don't have your engineering skills, so I'll have to get someone to do it for me. Guitar guys don't want to do it, since the WAV is like an upright, and upright guys don't usually do electronics. I'm hoping Manny at David Gage's shop can do it. David's shop already looked at the neck for me too. I'm useless technically.

The bad news is that on my way to a session last week I didn't realize that I had carelessly zipped the WAV into the gig bag earlier in the week, and the two zippers met, or not, at the bottom of the bag. I walked a few blocks before the WAV slipped from the bag and slammed onto Bleecker Street, causing an ugly gash in the amberburst laminate at the bottom front of the bass. A cautionary tale, although probably few people here are as careless as I can be sometimes with my stuff.

All in all, though, I'm happy. The WAV was great on Saturday's long, loud gig, and it was easy to transport, stood up by itself when I wasn't playing it, and didn't get knocked around by all the patrons and wait staff in the very crowded restaurant. I'm glad I got it.

[NickyBass]

Ouch. Sorry to hear about the slip. I hope it's ok.

If you haven't already, you could try Michael Dolan in CA to do the electronic work. He can do anything, and he does it well.

I was thinking about having him sand the neck and refinish it. I also wanted to see if the tuners could go all the way across the peghead. Of course, I have to decide it's fate, but if I decide to keep it, I am probably going to get in touch with him.

[MNAirHead]

LOOKING TO BUY...

I have cash or trades ready for one.. not in a hurry.. looking for the right deal..

Please PM with details.

[Jason P Bass]

Originally Posted by Matthijs

I'm a happy camper, though I'm still not quite satisfied with the sound in the region of the c up to the f on the g string. In that part the sound is narrow and a bit dreary. I do not think it's a wolf tone, but the effect is a bit similar. It might be a setup thing. I can't get the setup to be exactly as on my DB. The truss rod is completely loose and still the neck is a bit to straight to my liking. Any ideas?

I'm in exactly the same boat regarding the truss rod and neck relief. My truss rod was rattling around loose for weeks, but I finally snugged it up a few days ago.

I think the only solutions would be to use (much) heavier tension strings, or have the fingerboard planed. After reading that you're using real DB strings and have the same problem, I'm not hopeful that heavier strings will fix it. It would seem that having the fingerboard dressed is the only real fix.

[Matthijs]

Hi Jason,

I'm considering having the fingerboard planed too. I might go and ask my luthier for advice.

What has also crossed my mind is sanding down the neck. This might give the neck a more db like feel. Also if I'd sand down the part up to the Eb position I might get a more natural feel for hand postion on the neck. I think it would look bad though, but for me that's not a major consideration.

And Fred: Thanks for the warning! You're not the only one who's not always carfull in this department. I go to rehearsals on my bike (that's the amsterdam way of transport, and the main reason I bought the wav.), I'd hate to have that happen to me while dodging taxi's.
The long sustain is still there with obligato's, although way less compared to the original strings, I don't know about Correlli's. Having the setup as close as to the real thing made the biggest difference in being able to control the sustain. I do not mind some sustain though, as I play world music mostly. In a salsaesque sound a bit of sustain can be useful.
You say you have the tone control rolled off completely. I found that a tone killer because it also chokes to much high mid tot my taste, making the higher registers useless. That's why I changed the capacitor. I have it rolled of halfway now most of the time. Anyway now that the obligato's have aged a bit there's way less need for EQ-ing.

[NickyBass]

I was wondering if it was possible to do the following mod.....Keep in mind, I have no technical knowledge what-so-ever.

Going off of this schematic:

http://www.eclecticbass.com/WAV4Schematic.pdf

Would it be possible to buy two of these piezo buffers:



Found here: http://www.bestbassgear.com/bartolin...ezo-buffer.htm

And wire the two piezo pickups to each have a volume and a tone control?


I would have the control cavity stripped of existing wiring and have the two piezo buffers installed directly off of the pickups. Then I would have the knob layout changed to be volume, tone, volume, tone. This would require some drilling.

[Bard2dbone]

Isn't the arco and pizz 'pickups' just one piezo element with and without a capacitor in the circuit?

There aren't 'two pickups' to wire your preamp circuit to. I'm really confused what you're about to do there.

[adje]

No, there are two pickups, one under each "leg" of the bridge. You always get the combined signal of the two. When you switch to arco, the polarity of one of the two is reversed

[Matthijs]

Yep, the polarity of the treble side is reversed and the 'pizz' setting is the out of phase setting. My mod consists of having the option of just the bass side. IMHO that results in a better pizz sound. Also in the 'in phase' setting a extra tone cap is switched in.

Nicky's solution would work if you want to blend the piezo's, except for it being more practical to have the phase reversal switch between the treble side piezo and the pre amp.

I do think it might be overdoing it a bit. I doubt one would use the full independent tone control options on both piezo's and also the solo sound of the treble side piezo isn't much use.

[Matthijs]

You might also consider installing just one pre amp for both pickups and a passive volume control for the treble side. You might even use a stereo pot to create a blended phase reversal. Think of the stereo pot as a reversal switch as in the original wiring. You'd get a vol control with in the middle no added treble piezo and to the sides you'd dial in either a in phase or out phase sound.

[a_magg]

I've been rather absent from in here, so today would be a good day to give an update on my WAV. I must say, armed with a Fishman and some tweaking on it, it sounds very legit. The two jazz combos I'm in college with are pleased with the sound I'm getting.

There are two predominant issues that are coming to haunt me now. Earlier today, I tuned it up to practice in my room, and the E string snapped near the peg. After a few cusses and breaths I realize that string break. I called up Bob [Gollihur], and figured I'll just grab another E and bite the bullet...

Only when I really looked at the bass did I notice that the fretboard seemed to be arching forward quite a bit towards the nut, and that there was some spacing in the A strings windings towards the pegbox.

I'm figuring to just get a new set of Obligatos and start anew, but I need some advise on working on the truss. I'm afraid of putting any strain on the damaged A, but is it a good thing to leave the neck arched forward until I get replacements?

[Matthijs]

That's interesting. I have the trussrod almost completely loose and it's not arched enough to my taste. I also use obligato's, so the string tension can't make the difference. How far an arch are we talking about?

To be on the safe side i'd propably turn down the tension on the strings and let the neck straighten out and call Bob Gollihur again to ask for advise on the neck.

[a_magg]

Originally Posted by Matthijs

How far an arch are we talking about?

I snapped some pictures just now. From the look of it, it seems it has settled back down a bit (perhaps it had something to do from the loss of tension from the E? Although I'd assume it'd be going the other way in that case...):


...And heres a shot of the A string, this is pretty much identical to the issue with the E with the exception that the damage to the E was closer to the tuning peg. Perhaps I hit them while transporting it?

To be on the safe side i'd propably turn down the tension on the strings and let the neck straighten out and call Bob Gollihur again to ask for advise on the neck.

I'm definitely going to call back to order the strings. At that point I'll ask them about what to do about the neck. I'd like to raise the action a bit as well, but I don't want to do anything until I know I have rep strings enroute in case of another mishap.

[NickyBass]

Odd. I just sold my WAV4, but the neck seemed rock solid. Please let us know how you make out.

[Matthijs]

Is that string damage below the nut? I have that kind of displacement of the outer windings near the nut. I do not consider it as a real problem though.

It's hard to see, but i do think the neck arch is too much. I'd think a pro has to have a look at it as most people report the wav neck as being very solid, maybe even too solid.

[sythlrd73]

anybody have suggestions/pics of upgraded tuning pegs?