Position Markers

[Jack.Straw]

Hello. I'm building a weedwacker upright and need to know where to put the position markers on the fingerboard. Is it the same as an electric bass? I've been trying to look at pictures online but without frets it's and no experiance playing on a 40" scale, i can't really tell..

thanks in advance,
-Jack

[Phalex]

I used a tuner and a small sharpie to mark a few fret positions on mine. My tuner is an antique for a digital tuner so it only gives you notes it expects. So I got a mark at the 3rd fret position, the 5th fret position, the 7th fret position, the 10th and 12th. It's pretty easy to figure out the stuff between the marks. But 40" scale and 34" scale are not even close. Use a tuner. It works pretty darn good for finding where you are when you mark your positions.

[derrenleepoole]

Use harmonics, that should help...

[Jack.Straw]

I'm putting inlays into the fingerboard before it gets glued to the neck. I actually know precisely where all the notes are thanks to fretfind2. What i'm asking is which frets should get markers, and do they go in the exact center of where frets would go, or do they go where the frets would be?

I'm assuming it's like a guitar or electric bass... centered between frets at (3-5-7-9-12)(15-17-19-21-23) and so on. Is that correct?

[Phalex]

I'd aim right for where frets would go if you had frets in the first place. Place you finger directly on the mark for best intonation.

[Jack.Straw]

That makes sense. Is that how's it's done on a professional upright?

[KSB - Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Jack.Straw

That makes sense. Is that how's it's done on a professional upright?

I only see markers on a few basses that are used for Solos with classical players. I have never seen a Symphony Bass section with Fingerboard Dots. Have you? Is that what you would consider professional upright?

I have never seen a jazz player with markers either.

Do you think when you play you will have time to look for the notes when playing?

[Phalex]

Ken's right. You won't find markers on a "Professional" upright. Mine is made of box and the marks I made are on the edge, not the top of the neck. If you want marks, put them where ever you like. Fingerboard, or top side of the neck, it doesn't matter.

You will want them to be where the notes are, not between them. You can trust me on that one.

[Jack.Straw]

Many of the electric uprights that i see available online, such as the Eminence line, have small markers on the side of the fingerboard. When i say professional, i just mean professionally made. I'm not a double-bass player and i want the instrument to fall in-line with what is done by professionally luthiers. I realize that many upright basses don't have position markers, but some do... and i'd like to place mine in the same manor as those.

Does anyone own an electric upright with position markers than can tell me where they are on the instrument?

[hdiddy]

I have a Ned Steinberger and found the dots to be useful at times, especially in thumb position. I'd prob do the same layout as bass guitar up until the octave. After that I think I'd go with dots on every "fret". Whatever the way NSD did it, it was good.

If it were me, I'd do do inlay that is very similar to the fingerboard, so that you can't tell they're there from a distance. Make it dark so that you know it's there when you need it but can ignore it otherwise. As you get better, you won't need them as much or at all hopefully.

The other thing you could do is to get to know your bass to the point that you have certain natural indicators for certain positions. Like I know I have certain grain that marks where my C on the A string is and so forth. I'm slowly weaning myself off of any kind of landmarks like that.

[Jack.Straw]

I can see how marking every note towards the end of the fingerboard would be very useful... the notes get very close together down there.

[tornadobass]

I had a friend add small dots at the 3rd, 5th and 7th "fret" positions on my BugBass. He used small plastic rod that was inserted into drilled holes and then scraped/sanded level with the side of the fingerboard. I used a tuner to mark pitches, which are still only approximate depending on how the fingertip lands on the string.

I later added a dark blue paper dot at the octave between the D and G strings. Someday I will have him add an inlaid dot there.

Any more dots than this and I would find it harder to get around the neck. Standard URB fingering technique makes up the rest of the note locations, but I find it helpful when I'm starting a song to have the pitch close to correct. Also helps when I'm singing and need to keep track of where I'm at on the fingerboard quickly.

I once played a 1/2 size upright that the owner marked every half step with inlays. That was more difficult to play than if he'd done nothing.

[Paul Warburton]

My god man ....use your ears.

[tornadobass]

Originally Posted by Paul Warburton

My god man ....use your ears.

I wish it was that easy.

Singing in a loud blues band in a noisy bar with bad acoustics while playing EUB at the same time negates the value of ears much of the time.

[Bob Gollihur]

Originally Posted by Jack.Straw

Many of the electric uprights that i see available online, such as the Eminence(*) line, have small markers on the side of the fingerboard. When i say professional, i just mean professionally made. I'm not a double-bass player and i want the instrument to fall in-line with what is done by professionally luthiers. I realize that many upright basses don't have position markers, but some do... and i'd like to place mine in the same manor as those.

Does anyone own an electric upright with position markers than can tell me where they are on the instrument?

If you google "fret calculator" you'll find a number of on-line applications that will generate fret locations; you'd want to put your markers at those locations. One is at StewMac's site at http://www.stewmac.com/FretCalculator, you can enter your 40" scale length and how many "frets" (how far up the board) you want to go, and it delivers the measurements.

StewMac also sells inlays for fret markers, see http://www.stewmac.com/cgi-bin/hazel...ON_SEARCH.y=13 for some candidates. The circular ones are easy, just select the right size drill bit for a snug fit (try on a piece of scrap wood, first), make a shallow hole, use a toothpick to deposit some Superglue, and insert the marker.

Note: I recently picked up a set of stick-on markers for a bass guitar off eBay, see http://cgi.ebay.com/GLOW-IN-THE-DARK...QQcmdZViewItem. It was for a fretted bass guitar with tiny markers that are useless on dark stages, so I stuck a set of these on the upper positions on the instrument for more accurate jumps. Something like this would be cool for a beginner as they can be removed when you no longer need to depend upon them.

I'd suggest using masking tape or something to temporarily note positions to try it out. As with a marked fretless bass guitar, you do not put your finger directly on the marker, but slightly behind the marker so the leading edge of your finger stops the string at the correct point. And even then, you will also have to use your ears for precise intonation.

*FYI, Eminence basses do not come with position markers, but they can be added by special order.

[hdiddy]

I saw in a pic recently that one of our TBDB's did the old fashioned thing and made temporary frets by tying string or fishing line to a bass to create the fret. This could also be a useful way to find the exact spot for each of the markers and play the note to confirm in addition to any regular geometry one would do. This is the old fashioned way they would fret viola de gamba's in the old days.

Mind you that if your bridge moves around, it will also throw the markers off. That's always the danger of markers on a regular DB.

[Jack.Straw]

thanks for the responses. I know exactly where the notes are on the fingerboard (assuming i keep my bridge in exactly the right place). I'm just trying to confirm which notes (frets) should get markers.

[DavidMP]

I´m not sure if the fret calculator can be followed blindly. The distance from the bridge top to the fingerboard is quite large on the DB (compared to an electric bass guitar); this will increase the tension as you finger up the neck possibly making you sharp if you fall exactly in the calculated fret.

[anniemcu]

Originally Posted by tornadobass

I wish it was that easy.

Singing in a loud blues band in a noisy bar with bad acoustics while playing EUB at the same time negates the value of ears much of the time.

Indeed!

Also, we sometimes play in places where the position of the bass and my feet are not as uniform as one might want. Add the noise to that and you quickly see the value of a mark or two.

[Jack.Straw]

Originally Posted by DavidMP

I´m not sure if the fret calculator can be followed blindly. The distance from the bridge top to the fingerboard is quite large on the DB (compared to an electric bass guitar); this will increase the tension as you finger up the neck possibly making you sharp if you fall exactly in the calculated fret.

i'm certain you are correct here, especially since i'm using weedwacker line.. which flexes quite a bit more than wound strings. I will be following the fret calculator blindly though because the design of my inlays requires they be installed prior to creating the fingerboard radius. If it turns out the notes get a little off as the action rises down toward the bridge, then the player will just have to know to go ahead or behind the markings. The inlays, while they will prove usefull to me personally since i have no experience on a 40" scale (or playing fretless for that matter), are primarily for decorative purposes. I guess if noone here tells me differently i'm going to go ahead and mark every fret. That's a lot more inlay work than i had counted on..

Speaking of fingerboard radius, i decided on a 3" radius. How do you experienced players feel about that? Down the road if get my hands on a professional set of strings, do you think a 3" radius is stil bow-able?