Total Noob To the Standup

[mburd]

many years ago I played 90% of my gigs on DB. I had a couple Kay's, then a beautiful 1820's solid/carved instrument. The Kays were..well.. Kays.. in that they were ok for some stuff, but didn't suit my ultimate purpose. The 1820's bass was a stunning example....of a bass that needed a total restoration; a task I was not up to affording. I reluctantly let it go (sob..) to a player that ended putting many $k into it. I bought a Turner Renaissance Fretless and it served my purposes fine, knowing that someday i'd somehow transition back. That day has come, and I ended up with a NS design CR4M, which I love. Ultimately I'll want another acoustic instrument but for now this is very portable, plays beautifully and has a credible ensemble voice. And it's allowing me to get some chops back.
My long-winded attempt at making a point: Buy something that suits your purpose/budget for now, because at least you'll be playing. Then work on a plan to move ahead.

[Bruce Lindfield]

Originally Posted by mburd

That day has come, and I ended up with a NS design CR4M, which I love. Ultimately I'll want another acoustic instrument but for now this is very portable, plays beautifully and has a credible ensemble voice. And it's allowing me to get some chops back.
My long-winded attempt at making a point: Buy something that suits your purpose/budget for now, because at least you'll be playing. Then work on a plan to move ahead.

That was exactly my thinking! So I knew I wanted to play Jazz - but I just couldn't find a DB that sounded good and that I could afford - whereas, I went into the Bass Centre in London and tried several NS basses which sounded great to me and which I could buy on interest-free credit - I walked out with an NC CR5 under my arm!!

I haven't regretted this in any way - I've enjoyed playing it and feel my Jazz playing has improved as a result - and I'm not so thin-skinned as to let anybody (even Jazz pros) put me off!!

[mrpc]

Originally Posted by Bruce Lindfield

I've enjoyed playing it and feel my Jazz playing has improved as a result - and I'm not so thin-skinned as to let anybody (even Jazz pros) put me off!!

Bravo!

[Ed Fuqua]

Bottom line should be -what sound do you hear in your head? You buy the instrument that gets you closest to that with the least amount of effort. There's another whole thing about how the sound you have in your head can get so specific that you can get a version of that sound on any bass that you play, but that's talking about acoustic instruments.

If you like the sound of an EUB, you should get one. If you like playing an EUB, you should get one. If what you hear and what you want to play is a DB, then getting an EUB is going to be a disappointment in the long run. And given the choice of paying $2500+ for an EUB or $2500 or less for a New Standard, Christopher or Shen laminate or hybrid, finance shouldn't be a problem. Electric players DO find EUBs (especially those that aren't set up anything like an upright) easy to play and, in my opinion, they are willing to forgo any similarity to an acoustic instrument and the SOUND of an acoustic instrument because they don't have to put in any extra work to get a sound out.

I personally think that this is going to come back and bite them on the ass down the line.

There are reasons I play a bass that's not just a version of some kind of big fretless electric bass, but the biggest reason is SOUND. I hate carrying the big bastard around, I hate having to deal with the variances that weather introduces, I hate the sheer physicality of what i have to do to produce a sound out of the bastard. But nothing else in the world SOUNDS like that. So I don't care what I have to do. If I ever buy an EUB to fly around with, Ill be bemoaning the fact that it doesn't sound like my bass every time I pick it up. But that would be the only reason for me to buy one - do I spend $2000 on a flight case and still risk damage to the instrument I love or do I spend $2000 on a stick that doesn't sound anything like it, but can get shoved in the belly of a plane or a bus with little worries about damage?

Life is too short not to play the bass you love, make your choice based on that. Not what's supposed to be easier or better or whatever.

[Petary791]

Well, I think i'm gonna go with an EUB. I've seen people make their own, it has kind of inspired me. The sound i'm looking for is anything that Les Claypool does... I love the sound in Mr. Krinkle. Also, I don't know much about jazz on the EUB, I would try to be innovative, ya know? I'd try to develop my own style.

I'm done dreaming now...

[Marcus Johnson]

Given that narrow frame of reference, please remember, as Toonman pointed out, Les played "Mr. Krinkle" on an acoustic double bass, with a bow. So if that one song is your frame of reference, you might never get the sound that's in your head out of an EUB. Also remember that, as double bassists go, Les is a great electric bassist. I really admire what he does on the slab, and I like Primus, but I never think "Les Claypool" and "double bassist" in the same thought.

I suggest that you try to get your hands on some basses, both EUBs and DBs, and with the guidance of someone who plays the things every day, make your own choice based on the sound. It's hard to describe this stuff over the internet. Feel free to ask us a bunch of questions, no matter how silly they may seem to you. Maybe we can keep you from spending your money on something that won't ultimately be satisfying to you.

[Petary791]

Thanks a ton! You guys are sweet!

EDIT: Oh yeah one more thing, I was watching the Mr. Krinkle video, and he plays a REALLY light colored stand-up, i've never seen it before. Any idea on what wood?

[mrpc]

Petary791, sounds like you are going for the music you hear in your head. That always seems to be what works best. Good luck, I hope you will be posting with your progress. I think we all might get some bits from you for our own progress that way!

BTW, I have played acoustic way longer than the EUB (I love both), but discussing those skills and interests at lenghth here here would seem off topic.

It'll be great to hear what you're up to with EUB's, other basses, and music.


_______________________________________________

[Marcus Johnson]

Originally Posted by Petary791

Thanks a ton! You guys are sweet!

EDIT: Oh yeah one more thing, I was watching the Mr. Krinkle video, and he plays a REALLY light colored stand-up, i've never seen it before. Any idea on what wood?

If you can post a link to the vidclip, our beloved Ken Smith can tell you what the bass is, what the woods are, and the exact date and time the bass was built

[Petary791]

I went on Wishbass.com or whatever, and I found this one.

http://www.wishbass.com/pages/943110/index.htm (scroll down)

Is that a real bad one to start with?

[reiver1]

Ummm, in the immortal words of Montey Python: RUN AWAAAAYYYYY"


You've received some good advice already. I'll add that I went to an EUB for health reasons (back surgery) and couldn't tote my Kay around. I'm very happy with my Ergo.

[mrpc]

Originally Posted by reiver1

Ummm, in the immortal words of Montey Python: RUN AWAAAAYYYYY"


You've received some good advice already. I'll add that I went to an EUB for health reasons (back surgery) and couldn't tote my Kay around. I'm very happy with my Ergo.

I'll second that bit of advice!

_______________________________
"What a long strange trip it's been!" -Jerry and the bunch

[toonman]

I thought about sending some plans of a bass guitar I designed to wishbass and have him build it for me. I perfer my own designs over his. That was before I knew what all was involved in building a bass and built my own EUB. (sorry for mentioning it so much, I'm just so damn proud of it). I wanted wishbass to build me a 38" scale 6 string fretless, and went as far as drawing up the plans and asking him for a quote. His price wasn't to bad for the details I put into the drawing, but I was still sceptical. That is going to have to be my next project I think. I've built an upright, now its time for the 6 string fretless, Carl Thompson style. I've also built about 14 or so whamola's for a bunch of primus fans. If you dont know what a whamola is, check this link out. http://tantalusband.com/whamola.html
This is my bands website. If your a primus fan you should know about the whamola by now. I saw him play it live and I had to have one of my own. So I made plans for my own version of the whamola and built it myself. After playing on the whamola for awhile, especially arco style, I wanted to learn the EUB. Even though I didn't have the cash to go buy the EUB I wanted, by building one, I now have one I personaly like even better than the one I wanted and it means a lot more to me than any other bass out there. Even if it sounded like crap and didn't play as I wanted it to, I still would like the fact that I tried, and learned what I did the first go around. It was scary at first especially making the first couple of cuts. I really didn't know what I was really up against until I went and bought the supplies and started building. Things just started to fall in place like I knew what I was doing or something. I guess what I'm tring to say here is I knew what I wanted and went for it, even if it meant building my own and taking the chance of it not looking, sounding, or playing good. Which I did run into some problems, But you work around those too. You need to get what you want not what others tell you sounds good, and if it isn't out there for the price your willing to spend, build it. There are plenty of links and people here on this site Including me that will be happy to instruct you through the process of building one. Keep in mind it may take several tools you may not have depending on how detailed your going to get with it and a lot patience. Oh yea, and alot of filing and sanding. You may not want to go through the trouble of building one, but if you do, you'll love that bass more than any other. Ok, I think I'm done with my novel. Good luck with your decision.

I got your message and sent one right back to ya.

thanks

[bluesbass0945]

Petary, I'm on the same page as UncleToad. Each type of bass has its own unique sound and it's either what you like or not. As much as I love my KYDD Carry-On 4 EUB (www.kyddbass.com), it's not a double bass. Even the maker, Bruce Kaminsky, says the sound "is very similar to an amplified (not mic'd) acoustic bass." If you're really looking for a double bass, get a double bass. Even a cheapie will give a more acoustic sound than an EUB.

Now, personally, for what I play, my EUB is perfect. Many years ago, I took double bass lessons and, between my lack of formal music training and an impatient instructor, I soured on the instrument quickly. I went back to my MusicMan Stingray and didn't look back. In 1999, I saw Al Tharp of the cajun band Beausoliel playing an EUB (a KYDD, in fact). It was a mix between a fretless electric and an upright. Way cool. I bought one and loved it ever since.

The best way I can explain it is to say it's a fretless electric bass played with an upright technique. I know I solo very differently on my EUB than on my fretless Warwick Thumb. The sound is very different than an electric, but it's not an upright - it's a hybrid. Most other band members will swear that it sounds exactly like an upright, but bassists won't (what do most guitarists know from bass anyway? ).

One other piece of advice I can offer was mentioned earlier: get the best amplification system you can. A "run of the mill" bass amp will only frustrate you. The base sound that comes out of an EUB is significantly different than an electric bass and the eq controls have their base frequencies in the wrong place. Some type of parametric eq for the mids is a good start, but go for an amp that does not color the sound of the instrument. Personally, I bit the bullet and went for an Eden 550/212 combination. It works well for me and gives me a sound like no other amp/cab combination I've tried. I would look at an Eden Metro, maybe an Aguilar, an Epifani, Phil Jones, etc.

Another important issue is a good preamp. Unless the EUB has a built-in preamp that matches the impedence of a piezo-based pickup system to a "regular" amplifier. For a much more thorough discussion of impedence matching, refer to Bob Gollihur's website.

Bottom line, if you're looking to get an upright sound on the cheap, an EUB ain't gonna do it. Between the base cost of a good quality instrument ($1,500+), a good preamp ($80+) and a good amp system ($1,000+) It would be better to get a mid-range upright bass, good strings and an awesome mic/pickup system. However, if you like the concept of a fretless electric sound mixed with a little upright played with an upright technique (including bowing), an EUB is THE BOMB. Another cool thing is bowing while going through effects. Flanging, delay, chorus, envelope followers, all add a coolness for the right project. I play with a few "experimental" musicians and the EUB adds the right type of mojo for that.

Plus, they just look freakin' cool on stage...

Coop

[Bruce Lindfield]

I think you're a year too late!!

At least!!

[bluesbass0945]

Yeah, but people still read these moldy threads from time to time...