Transitioning to EUB

[Canuck Bass]

Hi all,

Just joined the forum. I'm looking at transitioning from my conventional bass to an EUB. I've played bass for about 40 years off and on and for the last 10 years regularly. Currently playing mostly pop and rock in a garage band but I want to get into jazz and I want the UB sound and techniques. I'm now considering an NS Design NXT 4 or 5 EUB. At this point in my life, I don't anticipate many future purchases. So, I'd like to buy a good EUB now that will give good service/sound/pleasure

Here are my questions.

As a new player of EUB's should I start with a 4 string or does going right to 5 string make sense at this time?

Are the NS Design NXT EUB's a good instrument to start out with or are there others you would recommend?

Thx... Canuck Bass

[jayscheuerle]

Though you won't get a UB sound with an EUB (you'll get an EUB sound), you'll get closest to it if you play it like a UB, so set up some lessons and play with your arm, not your fingers!

[tcl]

So, I think it depends on your goals. You mentioned that you've been playing in a garage band but have aspirations for jazz. For serious jazz, bandleaders tend to like the full upright. Maybe not so much for their sound but for the fashion statement. If you're after jazz gigs, you'll do better with the full upright which is roughly the same cost as a good EUB. If you're after casual jazz gigs - some jazz, some R & B, some pop, then I think the NS would do you fine. Even a porkchop will work well on those gigs. Personally, I get alot more out of my upright's sound and so I LIKE to play it over my EUB or porkchop, but I'll admit, it's not at all practicle. Be prepared though, if you pick up the EUB or upright, you'll spend a couple/few years getting comfortable with it.

[JoeWPgh]

Unless you have the time to woodshed it, I recomend against the 5. You've got 40 years of your low string being an E. You go there without thinking. There's some retraining of your impulses required, especially if you are improvising, such as a jazz setting.

[DoubleMIDI]

If you don't want to bow, get what you play on your bass guitar, 4 or 5 strings.

If you want to bow (generally a good idea, even fo practicing only) better get a 4-string, because the bowing angle (angle where you only touch one string in the middle) is larger with a 4-string. 4-string double basses are also much more common in jazz than 5-string instruments.

If (for whatever reason) you still want a 5-string, better choose a low B than a high C, because the high C is really thin and cuts into your hand (if you use steel core strings) but more important is that the additional high string will mix you up for a year and again if you go back to the G as the highest string. It is much easier to ignore a lower additional string than the high one.

Be prepared to learn new techniques like thump position if you want to play solos in jazz. This might take some more time.

Best contact a double bass player in your area to get lessons and who can explain what is important if you buy a double bass or a EUB. If you want a EUB, try to get one with the same string scale and neck scale (thump at the end of the neck is around the fifth) as a three quarter double bass, so you can switch more easily later (or play someone else's instrument in a jam session or on a multiple band event).

[powerbass]

I disagree about the upright is a fashion statement in jazz. To many folks the UB IS the sound of jazz or at least jazz of a certain time period/vibe/sound - not more modern electric jazz. If you want to play acoustic jazz then think about an UB, you can pick one up for rough;y the same cost as a good EUB.

Originally Posted by tcl

So, I think it depends on your goals. You mentioned that you've been playing in a garage band but have aspirations for jazz. For serious jazz, bandleaders tend to like the full upright. Maybe not so much for their sound but for the fashion statement. If you're after jazz gigs, you'll do better with the full upright which is roughly the same cost as a good EUB. If you're after casual jazz gigs - some jazz, some R & B, some pop, then I think the NS would do you fine. Even a porkchop will work well on those gigs. Personally, I get alot more out of my upright's sound and so I LIKE to play it over my EUB or porkchop, but I'll admit, it's not at all practicle. Be prepared though, if you pick up the EUB or upright, you'll spend a couple/few years getting comfortable with it.

[tcl]

For what it's worth, Powerbass, I feel the same way - the acoustic is THE sound for pre-1970s jazz and even some notable tunes since then. I've even gone so far as to use my fretless BG for Jobim tunes when it's clear that the original recording used it. Like "Triste", so I like to try to recreate the great sound of the original recording but I'm an admitted jazz snob.

Still, my point is that in my circle, I'm the only one who cares. Of all of the folks I play with, I don't think they care if I play an UB or fretted BG as long I groove and play the harmony. I've heard comments from other players about how they prefer a particular bassist (not me) to use their BG because they play a bit more lively on it. I think they're listening for the notes and rhythm and not the richness of the tone.

And the fashion comment came from one of my teachers who wanted to take an Eminence on his trip to Asia for his big band gig at a week-long festival, but the bandleader said "no" because it didn't look right. Not because he was worried about the tone but because it didn’t convey the romantic notion he wanted.

Finally, by the time the acoustic is amplified, I think it takes a pretty keen ear to tell the difference between it and my Eminence. I CAN hear the difference but I'm standing right next to it. Even I might have trouble hearing the difference in a poor recording.

In my case, since I'm such a jazz snob, I use my acoustic for anything I consider serious and my Eminence for jams, recitals, or when I'm concerned about enough stage space. They acoustic just has so much more depth – love that sound!

So, for me, it’s the acoustic, but for the OP, I stand by my original post – he should decide his goals and then pick.

[tcl]

Ah, I forgot that the OP asked about 4 versus 5 strings. My luthier and my teachers recommended against the 5 string claiming that the 5th string on the acoustic is not very useful and tends to get in the way. A couple of my friends enjoy their 5 string bass guitars and claim that after a year or so, they use the 5th string a lot. In my 7 years on the acoustic, I've only wanted the 5 string once. So, the short of it is: I think the 5th string is unnecessary and particularly ill-advised for an upright. For a BG, it's 49-51 towards no just for the ability to pick up someone else's axe and play it without issue - since most BGs are 4 string. I was shocked the first time I picked up a 5 stringer and found that my entire view of the neck was messed up, so I can see that it will take some time to get used to it. Hope that helps.

[SeaMist_au]

I did transition to upright via the NS NXT. Having said that I am now learning to play an upright. The sound is just totally different as is the presence of the instrument. The NS sounds more like a double bass than an electric bass but it just doesn't have that low end thump. You can learn the correct fingerlings for the scales and get both left hand techniques mostly right on an EUB and it does bow ok. You need though the help of a double bass teacher or you will take a whole heap of electric bass habits to your new instrument.
Having played both the really huge difference (apart from the sound lol) is the physicality of the double bass. The NS comes with a stand and the instrument is stationary as you play around it. Not so with the double bass. Your physical approach to the instrument changes depending on where and what you are playing. Balance and a relaxed stance becomes much more important to avoid injury.

On the question of 4 vs 5 strings, I tried both but just couldn't see the point of the extra string for me. I suppose it could come in handy sometimes but as has been pointed out you have spent many years with 4 and it would just mean extra adaption to your new instrument. Especially as the extra string is from memory below your low E and will get in the way for bowing.

Where the NS is really useful I think is where you want a more double bassey fusion sound. The low set up on the NS strings make it much faster and easier to play than the full double bass. Sustain is wonderful and bass guitar tremolo still works on it.

Either way I have found the NS NXT a wonderful instrument in its own right. I'm not getting raid of mine any time soon.

[tcl]

Sea_mist sounds right on the money to me. The NS is different than both the UB and BG, a different instrument with its own unique sound. If that's what you're after then great! You could also consider the NS Omni as a very portable psuedo upright bass, again, with its own sound. If you're looking for an authentic upright sound, the NS won't cut it, but if you don't need it and the folks you play with don't care, the NS is not a bad choice. Bob or Marc Gollihur at Gollihur Music might be able to offer more guidance.

[One Bad Monkey]

I'm probably the only person that has a 5 string EUB then, right? It honestly depends for your situation, but my main gigging venue is in the various musical theatres in town. And a very large amount of the double bass scores that are written (in the past 20 years) call for pitches below a low E, much like the bulk of the current electric bass books require a 5 string bass. So for my needs, a 5 string was a natural fit.

It does take a bit to get used to, but the 5 string doesn't get in the way. Plus, bowing a low C or B is nice. Really nice.

I looked at getting a NXT, but Marc Gollihur pointed me toward the CR5-M after listening to all of my thoughts and comments, and making suggestions. He and Bob are really the only people I trust for this type of thing; they are extremely knowledgeable and care more about getting you the right bass so you'll want to play it.

One thing to consider; the biggest upgrade you can do to the NS basses is to put on a set of proper URB strings. They'll get you so much closer to the sound and feel of a real URB (even though the best you can hope for is to sound like an URB being run direct through a pickup). With that said, a 5 string URB string set easily adds at least another $80 on top of the $120 (and that's low) price of a set of strings. Just another thing to consider.

[blowabs]

Any suggestions on a good set of strings for a EUB ....that gets the UB sound or somewhat there? I have a Stagg 3/4 coming friday. [First EUB endeavor and my wife would not let me go for the NS designs.]

[Canuck Bass]

Thanks to all of you for the guidance. I'll be going for the New Design NXT4. I've started checking out some UB music teachers so I can get it right the first time out.

Stay tuned!

Canuck Bass

[DoubleMIDI]

I haven't thried this, but I imagine downtuned Spirocore Solo 3/4 strings or Spirocore Weich 4/4 (S42W) might be fine for the Stagg. As always Spiros need a lot of playing until they sound nice. Be prepared to hate them for a few weeks (and maybe months).

But the stock strings are not that bad. A bit weak maybe.

[blowabs]

Originally Posted by DoubleMIDI

I haven't thried this, but I imagine downtuned Spirocore Solo 3/4 strings or Spirocore Weich 4/4 (S42W) might be fine for the Stagg. As always Spiros need a lot of playing until they sound nice. Be prepared to hate them for a few weeks (and maybe months).

But the stock strings are not that bad. A bit weak maybe.

I just got the Stagg yesterday. New to the EUB...whooooole different animal to the BG.
You are right, I'm kinda diggin' the stock strings. I'm going to live with them for a while, quite a while. [Tension is a lil high for me right now- but I'm learning stings on an upright take a while to break in]. I don't feel like spending $200 on a $565 bass- for strings right now. Can't wait til my lessons start in a few days!!!
Thx, though.
Allan

[DoubleMIDI]

The stock strings are available from Stagg.
A lot of double bassist say a set of string last for a year or two, just a few have a shorter life. THe Spirocores are completely different. THey need a longer time to break in, but afterwards you can play them for years. I had my first set of Spirocores on my bass for more than 20 years (OK, I didn't play very much during most of the time) and they only got better.
So $200 for a set of Spirocore might be a good investment on the long run.
But why not play with the stock stings first. The SPirocores might even have more tension than the stock ones. But with more tensio it sounds more like a double bass.

BTW, don't use the bass boost. A double bass doesn't have so much low bass frequencies. Only little bit if you are playing on a very low volume level.

Have fun with the Stagg, it's not so bad and you might like to find out that way if you want to switch to the big lady some day.

[blowabs]

Thank you for the string info.

Now I realize that UB strings last a long time this makes sense not like BG strings. So it makes sense.

All within five minutes I saw that I should not use the bass boost because all it makes it sound like it is a BG.
I don't think I'll ever go to UB because I don't like playing something that big... carrying something that big..... But I do like that sound! :-)