Upright bass -vs- ERB

[Stephen Koscica]

Hi all,

I've been trying to read as much as I can to educate myself on EUB's. But I still have some questions that I hope you guys (and gals) won't mind chiming in with.

Do most of (EUB) players, already have a regular upright bass and then, get an EUB? Do you mostly buy these because you fly with the bass so often, or because it's just easier to throw into the car and play gigs with? (Both reasons I am sure). They definitely are different, but I am still wondering, what the biggest reasons for owning one is.

I would really appreciate your thoughts.
thanks,
Steve

[Francois Blais]

What is an ERB?

[Stephen Koscica]

My fault, I meant EUB!

[RBrownBass]

Originally Posted by Stephen Koscica

Hi all,

I've been trying to read as much as I can to educate myself on EUB's. But I still have some questions that I hope you guys (and gals) won't mind chiming in with.

Do most of (EUB) players, already have a regular upright bass and then, get an EUB? Do you mostly buy these because you fly with the bass so often, or because it's just easier to throw into the car and play gigs with? (Both reasons I am sure). They definitely are different, but I am still wondering, what the biggest reasons for owning one is.

I would really appreciate your thoughts.
thanks,
Steve

It won't be long bvefore someone tels you to do a search, so I'll give you my story and try to help you out as best I can.

I have one AUB and used to own two. I recently bought an Azola (Vintage Reissue Baby) EUB. The Azola has a sound of its own, one that I like so much that it's pretty much put my AUB on the sidelines. There is also the issue of quality. The Azola was built by one of the most respected luthiers in that field, and plays like a dream. The AUB, OTOH, was an instrument that never sounded like I wanted it to (all my gigs are amplified whether BG, AUB or EUB), and was probably a tree six months before I got it. That said, the AUB probably wouldn't give me that sound without extensive mods to it or something anyway, so I'm left with no real reason to play the AUB. I still keep it around, tho.

If you want an AUB, get one. Don't let anyone convince you that an EUB is the superior instrument if the tone you love is that of the doghouse.

[salcott]

I have one double bass (NS LaScala) with pickup, and one Electric upright (Merchant Vertical-same strings and pickup). When I use the former, it's almost always w/out an amp. When an amp is needed, I almost always take the EUB. They both sound great in their own way. I'm at the point where I prefer the EUB on amplified gigs unless they're really low volume.

[JtheJazzMan]

first off, acoustic basses and EUB's have different tonal characteristics. different tools for different jobs. you play one or the other because you want that particular tone.

secondly, learning the whole upright technique only to use an EUB seems a waste of practice time. if you can play upright youll want an acoustic bass! theres nothing like it!

in my experience, acoustic basses are harder to play than an EUB strength wise, so if you can play acoustic you can play an EUB

[abaguer]

I have kay upright (workhorse) and juzek both with realist pu. also have knutson messenger eub and eminence. the uprights get used for very low volume gigs and recording. the eub's get all the work in moderate to loudish volume gigs. the knutson in particular has been the go to bass when flying and touring overseas.

upright and eub have different sound characteristics, as well as playing characteristics, go with the sound you want. at home I practice upright 90% of the time and practice EUB only if gig specific. The volume issue is the biggest factor when making the decision.

[boombloom]

I switched from bass guitar to AUB about 15 years ago. About 2 years ago I bought a Steinberger EUB here on Talkbass because I was really curious. I fooled around with it and then it spent some time in the closet. I've just started using it on gigs. We've had some nights in the 20 below range and I thought it would be a nice change of pace.

Folks here have written about relative ease of amplification. I agree. Easy to plug in to the PA or your own amp. Of course then you have to go through all the excitement of selecting and amp, hunting it down and acquiring it. I must say that leaving the electric bass behind all those years ago (well, the slabs are still gaining value in the closet) I had forgotten all about knobs and stuff and really concentrated on tone using my instrument and my hands.

The EUB is a totally different instrument. Friday night I did a gig at the Lake Placid Center for the Arts with a celtic harpist. The EUB provided me with sustain options unavailable on the AUB unless you use a bow. I had a wider range of tones. Really quite a difference. It was cool. I'm going to use this instrument more. Just beginning to explore. It's a wholly different animal.

[Rvl]

I own a UB and a EUB
Depending on location,transportation,band and audience
Tonight I brought my EUB , I picked up 2 other people and my UB wouldnt fit with everyone's gear

thanks

Robert VanLane

[tornadobass]

I had a URB for about 20 years before getting my Azola BugBass. The bulk of my upright gigs were in an electric blues band setting and it was always a struggle...hard to get enough volume, hard to fit on the stage, hard to get enough note definition...but the old American Standard looked cool.

A friend loaned me his Clevinger for awhile and it solved most of the problems of using the URB in that setting. His was an early model, and although it played well, the sound was not very convincing. I heard about the BugBass through a BassPlayer article and kept it in mind to buy one when I could. Finally, one popped up used online and I made a 2 hour drive on a cold winter night to do the deal in a McDonald's parking lot. Really!

In actuality, the BugBass played nicely but didn't have a convincing upright sound either. It was one of the early models with only a volume control and a modified BassMax pickup (no preamp like the current models). The stock strings were part of the problem...pretty twangy...and a conventional string, well aged, made a big difference in the sound. I've used Helicore Hybrid light gauge strings for the past few years with great success.

Now, my American Standard rarely gets out of the house...the BugBass covers nearly all my gigs requiring an upright. Why? The sound is more defined, it takes little stage space (less than an electric bass because of the vertical form factor), feedback is never a problem, easy to transport, easy to play. And it has its own cool factor

[Francois Blais]

I began bass playing on a cheap fretted BG in the '70s.
Then I discovered jazz and removed the frets on my cheap BG and later bought a short-scale Fender fretless.
I then bought my first DB (a Suzuki).
Over the years I had several DBs and, mostly for practical reasons, since I don't have a car, switched to the EUB.
I had three of them: an old Ampeg Baby Bass, then an early Azola BugBass, and now a Carruthers SUB-1.
I did some mods on each one to get the tone I want.

I think it's tricky to compare the AUB and the EUB.
Different AUBs sound different, and the same for EUBs.
I try to avoid generalizations such as the EUB has more sustain, etc.
A solid-body EUB is of course likely to have more sustain than an AUB, but the setup is very important.
I use orchestral strings on the EUB to get a more natural, more AUB-like kind of tone.

So the biggest reason for me is portability.

[ZonGuy]

I don't own a EUB, and use a fretless to cover places the upright shouldnt go. I would seriously consider one if the issue was forced, but it would be hard to justify financially. My expensive upright cracked after an outdoor humid performance = no more upright outdoors. Also, No way I would bring my precious to a smoke infested and drunkard infested bar, plus the feedback issues.

[Passinwind]

Hi Steve,

I owned an AUB some 30+ years ago for a few years, but serious damage to my hands from skiing made me get rid of it and I've played fretless BGs ever since. But seeing Eberhard Weber in the mid 70s a few times always left a lingering suspicion that EUB might be my real 'voice'. Five years ago I found one on Talkbass; in fact I think that ad is what made me find TB to begin with. I bought the bass on a lark, figuring I might play a few casual gigs with it someday.

Much to my surprise, I was gigging on it in less than a month, and within a few more months nearly all my gigs were on it. I just happened to land a nice jazz gig right then, and the first time I showed the band my EUB they told me to leave the BG (which is what I was hired to play) at home permanently.

And so I guess this is my voice after all. One of my subs plays an AUB, and all the concerns others have mentioned here ring true. Transport in 110-plus degree temps, or extreme cold, rowdy bar patrons, and so on, all make for some scary moments. Of course, if that's your voice, you figure out how to deal with all that. I'm now starting to use my BGs in those situations sometimes, since my EUB has become my principal instrument and I prefer not to abuse it too much. Go figure...

Best of luck. Hope you find whatever it is that makes you want to play it every day for the rest of your life, as I have.

[hdiddy]

I have an EUB that serves mainly as just a practice instrument. I try to play the acoustic as much as possible - neighbors permitting. Soundwise, the EUB is "flat" in comparison but sometimes flat is good. The DB sound is very deep - even with my student model Christopher.

Only a handful of players have switched to something EUB like mainly for practical purposes (like flying) but most stick with the DB. EUBs are fun, but if you're playing a certain "canonized" style (like Jazz or classical of course)... the DB always wins out. I think only in the Latin genre do people seek the sound of EUBs for the deep punchy bottom - generally speaking.

[brandonwong]

I use an EUB mainly for traveling and sometimes aesthetic purpose where the client want something different.
After i got a Joseph Pierre magnetic pickup, i'll take my URB over my EUB anytime for any kind of sound.

However i believe if you do not have a proper technique on the upright first before going to an EUB, some people might end up hurting themselves very easily. Playing upright is a whole body involvement and only thru an upright or a well balanced and weighted EUB, you can learn those nuances. i.e. pressing the strings using the weight of the arm rather than the muscle strength of the fingers.

[hdiddy]

Just FYI guys... Steve K (the original poster) sells double basses. He knows what's involved with form and technique when it comes to them. I guess he wants to learn more about just EUBs and how they're used. Click on the link in his sig. There's some pretty ones there.

[Stephen Koscica]

Thanks for all the input on EUBs. So far, I am getting that most people get these just to have them as another type of instrument really. I think that they really have a separate 'musical' identity or personality like a fretted elec bass, or upright bass.

There's that growing challenge to come up with something that will be easier for upright bass players to use (in travel) but without losing the personality of an upright bass. The EUBs are way more portable and less worry, but still not close to an upright bass.

Another thing I noticed was that the balance and feel is lost in a EUB that you have with the upright bass. Maybe that's just me because I have really only been playing that and for so long. We definitely all have one thing in common and that is, the "drunks" at gigs and the worry that they might walk into our axe. My friend was playing a jazz club once and a drunk that got up to walk out, dropped a ("tip") $100 into the bass f-hole! I like those kinds of drunks!

Thanks again for the input.

[salcott]

The Merchant Vertical Bass (and maybe others) comes with a "T" bar on the endpin to make balance easier. The "wing" that simulates the shoulder is adjustable for angle by anyone with minimal woodworking skills. Regarding personality and sound, I've done a couple of recordings with mine and have had people compliment me on the "great acoustic bass sound".

[tornadobass]

I find the balance on my BugBass to be very good and the aluminum "belly bar" transmits vibration from the body very nicely for a good melding between player and instrument.

No t-bar needed.

[Passinwind]

Originally Posted by Stephen Koscica

Another thing I noticed was that the balance and feel is lost in a EUB that you have with the upright bass. Maybe that's just me because I have really only been playing that and for so long.

I think many us would agree with that, although EUBs vary hugely in this regard in my experience. I have found the sweet spot for balance on my BSX, and in my case that means a shorter peg than I'd use for acoustic upright. I've adapted to that, and since I don't cross over to AUB nor so I intend to ever do so, it's a moot point for me. Not so for many others though.