Why EUB's? plus NS design and Ebay Questions

Don't Panic · #1 10-21-2007, 08:23 AM

I have recently thought of making my first step into upright basses after 7 years of playing electric, and since I have no space at home for an acoustic upright (I've got an extremely small room), I thought of getting an EUB.

So what are your reasons for getting EUB instead of an Acoustic one? what are the pros and cons? is the playability similar to acoustic?

The few guys around where I live (Israel) who play EUB's play NS Design. How are they? also comparing to other brands? what other brands are recommended? And how are the cheaper WAV series NS Designs?

Since the only upright I've seen for sale around here is way out of my budget (Warwick Triumph 4 - 3,839 USD worth), any of you has any experience with Ebay?

thanks and sorry for the loads of questions!

jzucker · #2 10-21-2007, 08:44 AM

An EUB is not a replacement. It's a different instrument. My Azola doesn't replace my DB but it augments it. It plays better, has better upper range access, is more portable, lighter, does not feedback, records better (direct at least), etc.

However, only a DB sounds like a DB.

eadg52 · #3 10-21-2007, 09:45 AM

There are many reasons for choosing an EUB over acoustic but the over-riding factor to bear in mind is that an EUB will not sound like an acoustic. If that's not an issue for you, in your situation a EUB has some advantages over it's big brother: smaller in size means easy transportation/storage, easier to play (going by my NS, and yes, I own an acoustic too) and less of problem to amplify. I recently got a 1 year old NS CR4M off ebay for less than half the retail price but maybe I just got lucky. The WAV looks a nice but cheaper bass if you prefer to buy new but expect to pay a little extra given your location.
Comparing various makes of EUBs is subjective so I suggest a trawl through the archives to help you decide. I'm very happy with the NS though.

Steve

buddyro57 · #4 10-21-2007, 10:00 AM

Some reasons for me:
I got tired of playing in small tight clubs, wedging my bass in between the drumset and the wall or whatever, getting the bass scratched moving in or out etc. I play some outdoor gigs in the summer, my carved bass just goes nuts in the humidity.
If the piano player is using an electronic keyboard, I find that there is a blend problem with the DB, that doesn't ocurr with the EUB. A fender rhodes blends pretty well with the DB, but most others don't, at least to my ear.
If you are playing a larger show, through the PA, I think the sound that gets projected to the audience has lost many of the wooden qualities that we all love. So- i think that ultimatley the EUB does just as well in those situations.
But- everything that the other respondants have said is true; the EUB certainly does not substitute for the DB. I guess the question is - does the EUB provide a functional bass sound for the group?

jzucker · #5 10-21-2007, 10:06 AM

One thing to be aware of. 90% of the time when you get called for a gig and they request acoustic bass, they want it to look like a double bass.

salcott · #6 10-21-2007, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jzucker

One thing to be aware of. 90% of the time when you get called for a gig and they request acoustic bass, they want it to look like a double bass.

I tell'em to listen with their ears, not their eyes,

Marcus Johnson · #7 10-21-2007, 12:46 PM

What do they usually say in response?

jzucker · #8 10-21-2007, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by salcott

I tell'em to listen with their ears, not their eyes,

Do you freelance? That tactic doesn't work very well.

bongomania · #9 10-21-2007, 03:31 PM

I chose an EUB because it is physically smaller than a DB, making it easier to transport and easier to use on tiny stages. Another benefit is that it is less prone to feedback, and is optimized for connection with your amp and the PA -unlike a DB, for which good-sounding miking and amplification is often a challenge.

I chose a BSX Allegro Acoustic because it seemed visually like it might get the best acceptance from superficially-minded jazz bandleaders. It doesn't look quite like a DB, but it looks more like a "traditional" instrument than many other EUB's do. And it is designed to come "close" to the DB tone and action.

Marcus Johnson · #10 10-21-2007, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bongomania

And it is designed to come "close" to the DB tone and action.

like this...

*fenderbass* · #11 10-21-2007, 08:46 PM

I bought an NS Design WAV and the endpin stand. I'm very happy with the sound for $1100. I use it for rehearsal and gigs where I don't want to take my acoustic DB, like outdoor gigs, gigs in tight quarters, etc... It's convenient and the sound is very good, but not completely authentic.

I love the look of the bass and have gotten many compliments. I don't think an EUB has to try to look like an acoustic DB. It's a different instrument that can have it's own look.

If you want the convenience without losing the acoustic DB look, you could try an Eminence. They were out of my price range, but I think they are a great compromise between portability, look, and sound.

That said, if I had $3,000 to spend I would have gone with an NS Design DB or an Azola.

Good luck.

bongomania · #12 10-21-2007, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcus Johnson

like this...

Heh! Good one. However, unlike in that shot, "close" in this case is entirely good enough for just about any gig short of orchestral/string quartet or acoustic jazz.

damonsmith · #13 10-22-2007, 12:01 PM

After a lot of tweaking I can get a sound out of my EUB that works for most gigs I would want to play. A lot of the extened techniques I use have to with the overtone series. The Ergo being a solid block of wood produces clear harmonics in all registers.
I can also get a big woody pizzicato sound out of it that is just as full and rich as amplified bass.
It takes a lot more work and knob twisting than it does with double bass, it just performs better amplfied than double bass.
The extended range through me off at first - I had to just play the four "Normal" strings when adjusting because a high F string is just going to be a little twanky and needs a different technique.
I can also get a good arco sound, which is really important since I play way more arco than pizz.

For my travel set up I have the laptop with field recordings through a live electronic program (lloopp) and the 7 string Ergo through a little GK.
I can get enough out of that to not miss my double bass. I never miss the stress of flying with it or dealing with the case to and from the airport.
I am mostly a purist, if it requires an amp I use the EUB, if not I play double bass acoustic.
If you take the attitude that you will maximize the EUB option, rather than let it be an inferior replacement you can get a lot out of it.
Extended range, the ability to project formerly quiet sounds, use of electronics, WAY more fun playing loud gigs etc. are all great ways to get a good experience playing EUB.

You can generally get a better instrument for less money with an EUB, so I think it much better to start with than a crappy plywood bass.

funkythumb · #14 10-22-2007, 12:19 PM

I agree with Mr. Zucker. I've had the exact experience when getting calls.
I bought a great Azola Lightening cause I was sick of having waiters running into my DB. I had no place to put it on the gig.
Anyway, I bought the EUB and guess what????.....everyone still wanted the DB. None of the jazz cats wanted the EUB.
I was paying off a $2,000 credit card bill for something that I couldn't use, so I sold it!!!
I miss it. I did some recordings with it at rehearsal with my songwriting group and man that thing sounds sweet.
I may get another one day but am not under the illusion that it will see daylight. Only the fusion bands were excited about having me bring it out. All the SERIOUS jazz purists were like...." naaa....bring the acoustic".
That's the truth and you'll run into the same situation no matter what city you live in. Jazz purists do not like EUBs.

emblymouse · #15 10-22-2007, 12:23 PM

You are coming to this as a bass guitarist and the view is different than a what a DB player sees. A good full scale EUB will be much closer to the DB experience that a DB'er will know. This should not be discounted, you will gain not only convenience, but valuable new sounds and skills. There is nothing like the sound of full scale strings meeting that slab of wood, regardless of what it is attached to.
You owe it to yourself to seek out Clevenger basses. If you ever want to go for the bow these are very well suited, unlike many EUB's. Here's mine (an eBay find BTW), this OPUS 4, about $2000 used. There are more basic models too, but all excellent in design and quality.

jzucker · #16 10-22-2007, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by damonsmith

If you take the attitude that you will maximize the EUB option, rather than let it be an inferior replacement you can get a lot out of it.

That's an excellent point. I love my azola and it definitely gets a nice DB vibe with a minimum of knob tweaking. However, there are times when I want it to be a super-fretless-bass-on-steroids.

The azola doesn't work very well in that scenario since it was designed to be more of a double bass sound. I think the ergo would be a better choice and in fact, I'd love to pick one up. I think going with a magnetic pickup would help too. Can you get round wound strings in the 41.5" scale? That would make a diff as well. For the super-fretless-bass-on-steroids I'd probably want a flat fingerboard...

damonsmith · #17 10-22-2007, 01:00 PM

Most want double bass, but it can still be useful for travel and louder stuff. If you never leave home you are better off with a double bass. I prefer my double bass anyway, so I don't mind. I have gotten more requests for the the EUB than I thought.
Just because they ask for DB does not mean it can't be discussed.
If you have concerns about the situation and think it will be better with the EUB then bring them up.

jzucker · #18 10-22-2007, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by funkythumb

I agree with Mr. Zucker. I've had the exact experience when getting calls....
...
Jazz purists do not like EUBs.

Yep. Every single jazz cat that calls you will be disappointed to see the EUB. And you're exactly right about the fusion guys. However, it's not just the hardcore jazz guys. I've found that restaurants like the DB and singers get all a-twitter at the sight of the double bass.

Then, if you are doing high end private parties, the booking agents will want you to bring the upright and specifically not the "stick bass". They don't care what it sounds like.

damonsmith · #19 10-22-2007, 02:08 PM

Depending on the situation, they may have to like it or lump it. Also, we don't all need to be passive and wait for the phone to ring. There are plenty of useful situations for it.
Personally if I get straight ahead gig I prefer using the acoustic myself.
Normally as bass player you do have a little leverage.

The EUB can open a bigger world than that. The Ergo is actually pretty woody and non-electric but if you got a 7 or 8 string you can do a lot of your guitar stuff as well.

Marcus Johnson · #20 10-22-2007, 02:52 PM

I've found most bandleaders are pretty flexible about it nowadays, if you can play. There was some resistance to it in the early days of EUBs, but most are even okay with my playing the NS BassCello at this point.

I play the real bass whenever possible, because I just flat out play better on it. But I don't think most people will have any qualms about hiring, say, David Friesen because he plays a funny little bass.

Regarding buying a DB vs. an EUB, in my case, it isn't either/or. I play DB, and I own an EUB in order to sound as good as possible for those times when I can't use the real thing. To put it another way, in order of preference for me, it's 1.) My own double bass, 2.) a rental double bass of good quality, and 3.) the EUB.

YMMV.