Shifting - Fingering

[ErikP.Bass]

Hello Todd,

I am wondering if you have any advice regarding shifting and fingering. Lets say for example you are working through a standard, do you first go through and map out the key centers and then determine the best 4+2 positions?

I find when playing through jazz standards, or even just playing in general, I tend to chase chord shapes/fingerings/scale patterns (identified using the one finger per fret method). What compunds this is trying to play these shapes using the 1-2-4 method (three fret span) below the seventh fret.

I know fingering is a very personal thing and what is comfortable will vary from person to person. Just looking for you to share some of your experiences, thoughts and ideas on working on this.

I do own Technique Builders and Walking Vol. 2, so if I seem to have missed something (besides Walking Vol. 1 ) please feel free to direct me.

[Todd Johnson]

Originally Posted by ErikP.Bass

Hello Todd,

I am wondering if you have any advice regarding shifting and fingering. Lets say for example you are working through a standard, do you first go through and map out the key centers and then determine the best 4+2 positions?

I find when playing through jazz standards, or even just playing in general, I tend to chase chord shapes/fingerings/scale patterns (identified using the one finger per fret method). What compunds this is trying to play these shapes using the 1-2-4 method (three fret span) below the seventh fret.

I know fingering is a very personal thing and what is comfortable will vary from person to person. Just looking for you to share some of your experiences, thoughts and ideas on working on this.

I do own Technique Builders and Walking Vol. 2, so if I seem to have missed something (besides Walking Vol. 1 ) please feel free to direct me.

Erik,

Map out the key centers and then determine the best 4+2 positions....that's a GREAT place to start.

I also have my students practice playing their bass lines on just the E and A strings. That will really make you think about what you're doing. Plus it keeps your bass lines sound very "meaty"....The best sounding roots are "generally" on the E and A strings.

The 4+2 will help with your "vertical" aproach to your bass lines.

Practicing on the E & A strings will help you develop your "horizontal" approach.

A "balanced" combination of both will really "set you free" to just play. I don't think about ANY of that stuff anymore....at least not very often...it's there in my subconsious...but it's WAY back there.

Again....the secret to playing music at a high level is to INTERNALIZE everything to the point where you don't have to think about it....THEN...and only then will you realize your potential...and frankly have the most fun. BUT....it takes time and a lot of practice. Make sense??

Cool....

I hope this helps.

Play slow!!

[ErikP.Bass]

Thank you Todd. After thinking things over definitely where I am having problems is thinking about/visualizing/moving things horizontally.

When I am in position, I feel comfortable (in one finger per fret areas), once the keys start changing and I have to shift horizontally that is when I start losing my place. I start aiming for roots with chord shapes/fingerings I am comfortable with.

I am interested in learning more about the E & A two string method. Any tips/exercises on how you visualize moving horizontally? Maybe and idea for the next DVD......Technique part 2!

[Todd Johnson]

Originally Posted by ErikP.Bass

Thank you Todd. After thinking things over definitely where I am having problems is thinking about/visualizing/moving things horizontally.

When I am in position, I feel comfortable (in one finger per fret areas), once the keys start changing and I have to shift horizontally that is when I start losing my place. I start aiming for roots with chord shapes/fingerings I am comfortable with.

I am interested in learning more about the E & A two string method. Any tips/exercises on how you visualize moving horizontally? Maybe and idea for the next DVD......Technique part 2!

Erik,

Check this out....In the 4+2 system, you can go from "one key" to any other key....and you never have to shift more than 1 fret....You're either in a 2nd finger position or a 4th finger position. Try it....it's pretty cool....

The E & A string method....take one of the "all the things you are" transcriptions I posted and try playing them on the E & A strings....See how far you can get.....Now....you have to shift around quite a bit, but I bet you can do it. This will really help you "think" your way through things....you'll get it.

My next DVD won't be an instructional one.....I have over an hour of footage of me playing a bunch of solo pieces...I'll get that all edited together in May....Probably have it out by June.

I'm "planning" on making some "downloadable/streaming" lessons this summer. They'll be 15 - 20 minute lessons with transcriptions, play alongs and homework assignments that will complement/supplement my walking bass method.

See....typically when guys study with me I teach them my "system/methods" etc....then we apply those methods to "songs"..... That way I know they really understand it and know how to apply it.

For example, I'll take Walking Volume 1 and apply the triad modules to a "given" song....Songs teach you a lot. Different chord progressions will bring up an entire "host" of questions....I can then address the most common questions and really feel like I'm helping people etc. PLUS...that way I can make it feel like you're studying with me....because that's a large chunk of what you'd get if you studied with me in person. Method and application........Make sense?

I'll make them available for $10.........I think that'll be a win/win for everybody.

As far as DVD's go....I'm trying to make up my mind on just "exactly" what subject I want to address.....

There will be a Walking Bass 3 at some point....it might be next....it might be down the road. We'll see....

That's it for now....I hope this helps.

[ErikP.Bass]

Just wanted to say thanks again Todd. Lots of information there...........which when used properly forces me to focus and equally as important slow down!!!!

[Todd Johnson]

Originally Posted by ErikP.Bass

Just wanted to say thanks again Todd. Lots of information there...........which when used properly forces me to focus and equally as important slow down!!!!

Erik,

You got it my friend....Slow it down...think it through....play it a few times and next thing you know, you've got it together. Cool... We actually learn faster by slowing things down...strange huh?...but that's how it works.

Cool.....

[ErikP.Bass]

Hello Todd,

Just another question for you regarding fingering and visualizing patterns on the bass neck.

For pentatonic scales (major, minor) do you still visualize/play the patterns within the 4+2 shape?

Same question for arpeggios? Perhaps you visualize individual patterns for each type of arpeggio (m7, M7, dim7 etc.)?

I'm not really looking for an in depth response but just wondering if I should work the theory under my fingers all from within the shapes learned in your video. The lines used in Vol 2 are really smooth and linear, they fit perfectly in the patterns, the pentatonic scales and arpeggios jump more intervallically.

If this is expanded upon/addressed in Vol 1 please let me know. I am just trying to be sure that when working with your method that I am consistent.......as I know that is key in developing muscle memory.

[Todd Johnson]

Originally Posted by ErikP.Bass

Hello Todd,

Just another question for you regarding fingering and visualizing patterns on the bass neck.

For pentatonic scales (major, minor) do you still visualize/play the patterns within the 4+2 shape?

Same question for arpeggios? Perhaps you visualize individual patterns for each type of arpeggio (m7, M7, dim7 etc.)?

I'm not really looking for an in depth response but just wondering if I should work the theory under my fingers all from within the shapes learned in your video. The lines used in Vol 2 are really smooth and linear, they fit perfectly in the patterns, the pentatonic scales and arpeggios jump more intervallically.

If this is expanded upon/addressed in Vol 1 please let me know. I am just trying to be sure that when working with your method that I am consistent.......as I know that is key in developing muscle memory.

Erik,

Man, I can't believe I didn't get to you sooner....sorry about that. I just overlooked this one! Sorry about that!!! Doh!!

Yeah, get the theory together within the 4+2 system and you should be in good shape. That's a GREAT place to start.

Thanks again for your patience!!

Humbly........

[ErikP.Bass]

Todd,

I know to a certain degree this has been done to death on TB (1-2-4 vs. OFPF) but I was wondering............when you were learning to use the 1-2-4 fingering on the lower register did you actually study the Simandl method or did you just do what comes naturally?

Again I know there is no real rule as to when to use what fingering as you have to examine your choices based on the music but when learning technique I realize how important "consistency" is.

Todd, thanks as always for your guidance! Everyone feel free to chime in with your experiences.

[Todd Johnson]

Originally Posted by ErikP.Bass

Todd,

I know to a certain degree this has been done to death on TB (1-2-4 vs. OFPF) but I was wondering............when you were learning to use the 1-2-4 fingering on the lower register did you actually study the Simandl method or did you just do what comes naturally?

Again I know there is no real rule as to when to use what fingering as you have to examine your choices based on the music but when learning technique I realize how important "consistency" is.

Todd, thanks as always for your guidance! Everyone feel free to chime in with your experiences.

Eric,

Hey, great question.......thanks.

I actually learned and studied the Simandl method in college. (I was very serious about the upright for about 7 or 8 years) So that's what I started with.......

I later studied all the OFPF stuff at BIT with Gary Willis.....I also studied Gary's 4+2 system..... It's a brilliant way to "see" the fingerboard.......it's also a great way to play "at times".....BUT.... In the lower registers I use a "convenient combination" of the 2 techniques. Make sense???

To me it doesn't make sense to stress your hand just to stick to a "rule" or someone's idea of the "proper" way to play. But...I "see" the fingerboard in that 4+2 system and apply it to my playing where practical.

I hope this helps.

Cool??? Cool.........

[ErikP.Bass]

So you actually had "formal" training on both methods.......I could see where a blend would naturally evolve.

I was just conteplating getting the Simandl book and working with it for a while (on electric only) mainly to get the 1-2-4 fingerings. Mainly to have a structured approach to applying this method in the lower register.

Once again thanks for sharing your experiences!

[Todd Johnson]

Originally Posted by ErikP.Bass

So you actually had "formal" training on both methods.......I could see where a blend would naturally evolve.

I was just conteplating getting the Simandl book and working with it for a while (on electric only) mainly to get the 1-2-4 fingerings. Mainly to have a structured approach to applying this method in the lower register.

Once again thanks for sharing your experiences!

Hey Erik,

Where do you live???........I could REALLY help you fix this in a hurry, but I'd have to show you in person. Feel free to post here or send me a note at my home email todd@toddjohnsonmusic.com

If you're anywhere near L.A. then you really ought to come take a lesson and let me fix this for you.

Cool??? Cool......