Walking with a crutch...

[Bassist4Life]

Todd,

I am in a jazz quartet that just got a gig. Jazz have never been my main thing, but I'm loving it. I am listening to as much jazz as possible to get it into my vocabulary. Now, I can make a little bit of money playing it. We are scheduled to play from 7 to 10pm in a restaurant one night every other week. I'm really looking forward to it.

Anyhow, I am stuck in a bit of a rut. I am a slave to the page. The leader of our group gave me around 150 tunes to put in my 3 ring binder. I am created bass lines for many of these tunes. I feel the need to write them out so I can do a good job during our rehearsals (and our coming performances).

I can write some good lines; however, I have a difficult time coming up with them on the fly. I'm good for a couple of measures, but then everything becomes R, 3, 5, 3 OR R, 5, R, 5. It not good. The music begins to suffer.

Are things going to click and become automatic? Should I keep on writing these lines out until they become automatic? Being the only guy in the quartet that is "reading" kinda stinks. They are following the chart, but they're NOT "reading" their parts. Are there a lot of other bassists in my situation that are writing their parts out?

Joe

[Freddels]

I suggest writing out all the notes to the chord (arpeggio) on a 3x5 card with the name of the chord on the other side. Use these flash cards to help memorize the chords.

There are a couple of good books that can help. The Ed Friedland book on building walking bass lines and the Bob Magnusson book are really good.

It takes time to learn to walk a good line. In fact, it's a life's journey.

Best of luck.

[Bassist4Life]

Originally Posted by Freddels

I suggest writing out all the notes to the chord (arpeggio) on a 3x5 card with the name of the chord on the other side. Use these flash cards to help memorize the chords.

There are a couple of good books that can help. The Ed Friedland book on building walking bass lines and the Bob Magnusson book are really good.

Best of luck.

Thank you for your suggestion. It's a good one; however, I am pretty good at spelling out chords. In fact, I play a little game with a guy I work with. We're both public school music teachers. He's the band director and I'm the orchestra director. He'll say a root and ask me to name a pitch at a given interval. He'll say, "What's a #11 above Bb?" "What's a b13 above D?". I never actually think about these when I'm playing, this is just for fun. (We're nerds ). When creating basslines I tend to spend my time on R, 3, 5, 7 along with scale and chromatic tones to connect chord tones. I do use a fair amount of b5's.

The problem I have is connecting the chord changes in real time. I've gone about this process in different ways. I've tried to map out finger patterns. I've tried writing landmark notes on beat one of each measure. I've also limited myself to certain pitch patterns, but these don't always connect chords smoothly. I guess I've never spent enough time developing these techniques because I wasn't sure if they were worthy of the time I'd be spending on them.

An interesting observation I made is that when I play a bass line I've written, I play it around the first 5 frets. When I transcribe or create a bass line, I tend to play in higher positions. Hmmmm... I wonder if there is anything to this...

Thanks again for your reply.
Joe

PS.

Originally Posted by Freddels

It takes time to learn to walk a good line. In fact, it's a life's journey.

I DO agree with this statement.

[Scott McC]

I really recomend "liftiing" some bass lines. Listen to some Paul Chambers, and learn a chorus or two of it. Then, transpose it into one or two keys. Try this on a blues, rhythm changes and a standard with a lot of 2 5 1's. This really helped me a great, great deal. Have fun and play that bass brother!

[juggle4]

Bassist4Life, I share your problem. I'm also playing in a
jazz group, and I have difficulty building a good walking line
on the fly. It may not be your cup of tea, but one thing
I've used to help is Band in a Box. If you use the latest
version and plug in a standard tune, it can build a chorus as well as a walking line. Granted, it's not the most
sophisticated walking line, but at least it's a starting point. There's a lot of good instruction on this, but I think it helps a lot to use the music that you're trying to play.

[Don't_Fret]

Try not to move around too much. Stay mostly in the first position to start, so you can focus on the content of your lines and not where you are on the fretboard. This helped me greatly.

[Freddels]

Originally Posted by Bassist4Life

Thank you for your suggestion. It's a good one; however, I am pretty good at spelling out chords. In fact, I play a little game with a guy I work with. We're both public school music teachers. He's the band director and I'm the orchestra director. He'll say a root and ask me to name a pitch at a given interval. He'll say, "What's a #11 above Bb?" "What's a b13 above D?". I never actually think about these when I'm playing, this is just for fun. (We're nerds ). When creating basslines I tend to spend my time on R, 3, 5, 7 along with scale and chromatic tones to connect chord tones. I do use a fair amount of b5's.

The problem I have is connecting the chord changes in real time. I've gone about this process in different ways. I've tried to map out finger patterns. I've tried writing landmark notes on beat one of each measure. I've also limited myself to certain pitch patterns, but these don't always connect chords smoothly. I guess I've never spent enough time developing these techniques because I wasn't sure if they were worthy of the time I'd be spending on them.

An interesting observation I made is that when I play a bass line I've written, I play it around the first 5 frets. When I transcribe or create a bass line, I tend to play in higher positions. Hmmmm... I wonder if there is anything to this...

Thanks again for your reply.
Joe

PS.
I DO agree with this statement.

It's sounds like you've got some good foundation for the chord tones BUT it also sounds like you still don't know them well enough and the combination that you may not know your fb well enough. (The music stops for no one <G>). Just keep working at it AND saying out loud each note that you play. I do this all the time when I practice. It really helps and it slows you down a bit too.

It does take time to learn to do a good walking line (so it doesn't sound like a boogie woogie line <G>).

Get the Ed Friedland book to start. Examine how he's walking through the ii-7 V7's and figure out a finger pattern. Then look at some of your tunes that have a lot of ii-7 V7's and transpose your pattern. Here's one that I like (R, 2, b3, 5 on the ii-7 and then R, b7, 5, drop down to the 3 to the R of the I Major). Try to figure out about 3 different ones like this. Look through the Book and find some. Then write out the ii-7 V7's is all keys and practice. Also practice on F and Bb blues (probably the most common keys).

This will be walking by numbers (so to speak) but it will help you get through the gig.

Also, if you see two chords per measure and you can't make out a good line for both chords, you can always skip one of those chords (which one may depend on the theory).

Listen, listen, listen to Ray Brown and Paul Chambers.

Also, the Rufus Reid book is good for learning to walk also.

I think there's a Sticky on this forum somewhere (could be on the DB side) about walking bass and I think it's either written by PacMan or Chris Fitzgerald.

[Bassist4Life]

Originally Posted by Scott McC

I really recomend "liftiing" some bass lines. Listen to some Paul Chambers, and learn a chorus or two of it. Then, transpose it into one or two keys. Try this on a blues, rhythm changes and a standard with a lot of 2 5 1's. This really helped me a great, great deal. Have fun and play that bass brother!

Thanks man, this is a great suggestion. Learn from the masters. I actually use a bass line from Todd when I play So What. I got it from one of his modal lessons a while back. Thanks Todd!

Joe

[Bassist4Life]

Originally Posted by juggle4

Bassist4Life, I share your problem. I'm also playing in a
jazz group, and I have difficulty building a good walking line
on the fly. It may not be your cup of tea, but one thing
I've used to help is Band in a Box. If you use the latest
version and plug in a standard tune, it can build a chorus as well as a walking line. Granted, it's not the most
sophisticated walking line, but at least it's a starting point. There's a lot of good instruction on this, but I think it helps a lot to use the music that you're trying to play.

Thank you. I've considered this. I love Band in a Box. My trial version expired. I have it on my wish list.

Joe

[Bassist4Life]

Originally Posted by Don't_Fret

Try not to move around too much. Stay mostly in the first position to start, so you can focus on the content of your lines and not where you are on the fretboard. This helped me greatly.

Thanks. Good suggestion. I actually read an interview with Ron Carter where he said something very similar. I think it's a great starting point. I do spend much of my time in that position when I write my lines down. I try to keep it simple so I can keep the motor running during the rehearsal.

Joe

[Bassist4Life]

Originally Posted by Freddels

It's sounds like you've got some good foundation for the chord tones BUT it also sounds like you still don't know them well enough and the combination that you may not know your fb well enough. (The music stops for no one <G>). Just keep working at it AND saying out loud each note that you play. I do this all the time when I practice. It really helps and it slows you down a bit too.

It does take time to learn to do a good walking line (so it doesn't sound like a boogie woogie line <G>).

Get the Ed Friedland book to start. Examine how he's walking through the ii-7 V7's and figure out a finger pattern. Then look at some of your tunes that have a lot of ii-7 V7's and transpose your pattern. Here's one that I like (R, 2, b3, 5 on the ii-7 and then R, b7, 5, drop down to the 3 to the R of the I Major). Try to figure out about 3 different ones like this. Look through the Book and find some. Then write out the ii-7 V7's is all keys and practice. Also practice on F and Bb blues (probably the most common keys).

This will be walking by numbers (so to speak) but it will help you get through the gig.

Also, if you see two chords per measure and you can't make out a good line for both chords, you can always skip one of those chords (which one may depend on the theory).

Listen, listen, listen to Ray Brown and Paul Chambers.

Also, the Rufus Reid book is good for learning to walk also.

I think there's a Sticky on this forum somewhere (could be on the DB side) about walking bass and I think it's either written by PacMan or Chris Fitzgerald.

Thanks man. Lots of good advice here too. I do have the Friedland book. He starts out really simple with R, 5, Octave lines. I go to this when I feel like I'm in trouble.

About not knowing the fingerboard very well... I would like to think that I do know my fingerboard well, but maybe I don't. I played classical double bass for 4 years in college. I transfered my knowledge to electric bass. I feel pretty confident, but maybe you're right. Perhaps I don't know my FB as well as I could/should. This could be a reason when I'm having trouble.

Thanks for all your input.

Joe

[Freddels]

Originally Posted by Bassist4Life

Thanks man. Lots of good advice here too. I do have the Friedland book. He starts out really simple with R, 5, Octave lines. I go to this when I feel like I'm in trouble.

About not knowing the fingerboard very well... I would like to think that I do know my fingerboard well, but maybe I don't. I played classical double bass for 4 years in college. I transfered my knowledge to electric bass. I feel pretty confident, but maybe you're right. Perhaps I don't know my FB as well as I could/should. This could be a reason when I'm having trouble.

Thanks for all your input.

Joe

Without seeing and hearing you play I don't know what you know and don't or how well. I can only make assumptions and suggestions. The Friedland book does start simple and those are good examples. Don't rush to the more complex stuff until you really have gone thoroughly through the beginning examples.

For an exercise, put a metronome on and take one of your tunes. Without your instrument in your hand, say the notes of the chords to the tune while staying with the metronome. This may give you some handle on where you need some work.

If you played upright for a number of years you should have a good mental picture of the fb and therefore be able to close your eyes and picture in your mind all the notes that you can reach from any finger (ex. think of your index finger on Db on the A string and picture all the notes that you can reach with the other fingers. Do this at different places with different fingers). For now, I think you just want to get through the tunes so I suggest staying in the lower part of the fb where you really know it.

Also, work on the two-feel as many times you'll start out a chorus or two in the two-feel. Root - Fifth, Root - Third. Try voice leading into the next chord change. With progressions that go in fourths ( ii-7 V7 I) watch the relationship b/w the 3rds and 7ths.

I like to think of walking bass lines as quarter note solos below what everone else is doing.

[Bassist4Life]

Originally Posted by Freddels

For an exercise, put a metronome on and take one of your tunes. Without your instrument in your hand, say the notes of the chords to the tune while staying with the metronome. This may give you some handle on where you need some work.

Also, work on the two-feel as many times you'll start out a chorus or two in the two-feel. Root - Fifth, Root - Third. Try voice leading into the next chord change. With progressions that go in fourths ( ii-7 V7 I) watch the relationship b/w the 3rds and 7ths.

I actually enjoy working with a metronome. I often put the click on 2 and 4.

I don't have much trouble with the two-feel. It allows me enought time to look at the next chord and know if R, 5 will work. R, 5 usually works. When I want something fancier with triplets, I will write my line out. I have a two-feel lesson I got online from Cliff Engel. Good stuff.

Again, thanks for your input and suggestions.
Joe

[Todd Johnson]

Originally Posted by Bassist4Life

Todd,

I am in a jazz quartet that just got a gig. Jazz have never been my main thing, but I'm loving it. I am listening to as much jazz as possible to get it into my vocabulary. Now, I can make a little bit of money playing it. We are scheduled to play from 7 to 10pm in a restaurant one night every other week. I'm really looking forward to it.

Anyhow, I am stuck in a bit of a rut. I am a slave to the page. The leader of our group gave me around 150 tunes to put in my 3 ring binder. I am created bass lines for many of these tunes. I feel the need to write them out so I can do a good job during our rehearsals (and our coming performances).

I can write some good lines; however, I have a difficult time coming up with them on the fly. I'm good for a couple of measures, but then everything becomes R, 3, 5, 3 OR R, 5, R, 5. It not good. The music begins to suffer.

Are things going to click and become automatic? Should I keep on writing these lines out until they become automatic? Being the only guy in the quartet that is "reading" kinda stinks. They are following the chart, but they're NOT "reading" their parts. Are there a lot of other bassists in my situation that are writing their parts out?

Joe

Hi Joe,

First of all, CONGRATULATIONS on your jazz gig!!! Way to go!

To answer your questions directly:YES,...writing your lines out is a GOOD thing....AND there are a TON of other players in your exact position.......

BUT....

IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT that you divide your practice time into 2 parts for now....

Part 1 is constructing good bass lines on paper and playing them repeatedly with the purpose of internalizing them....

Part 2 is sitting down and working on CREATING YOUR LINES on the fly. If you don't practice playing on the fly, then you won't get good at it. Make sense??? Right now it probably feels like these 2 skills are miles apart.... but if you'll work at them on a consistent basis, then you'll be able to "create" lines on the fly that are as good as what you can "write out" in short order.

It looks like you've gotten A LOT of very good advice from a bunch of the guys on this list. Cool.... I love the fact that everyone is so supportive and helpful!!!!

BUT... here's some free advice on how I think you can accomplish your walking bass goals.....

Let's start with a question.......

HOW DO YOU EAT AN ELEPHANT???.... answer: "The same way you eat a chicken....ONE BITE AT A TIME"!!!!

First off....realize what you're trying to accomplish will take some time..... plain and simple. IT WILL NOT HAPPEN OVERNIGHT. You're essentially trying to learn and "INTERNALIZE" a language.

SO......

You need to learn some basic "words" .... "walking bass line language" so to speak.

I don't wish to sound like an infomercial.....BUT..... My "walking bass" DVD will take you through EXACTLY what it is you're trying to learn.

I made this DVD for precisely for guys like you who are in this position......(FWIW, .... Since 1990, I've taught at BIT, Cal Arts, College of the Canyons and The Masters College and dealt with this exact problem on a daily basis,...)

The problem is that you're bombarded with choices (to a point).....It becomes a case of "here's what you COULD do"....in short order the student "generally" becomes paralyzed by "TOO MANY CHOICES"..... and if there is an exception to the rule or a wrong decision to be made, then the student will find it every time!!! It's "Murphy's Law" plain and simple.

Rather than telling you what you COULD do......my method tells you exactly what I want you TO DO!!! It breaks everything down into "bite size chunks" that you can digest,...rather than having you "choke" on too big a bite of information. Make sense???

It's critical that you get in control of "the basics" first.....and create a proper foundation......THEN.....all the other stuff will add on quickly and (relatively) easily....and you'll be able to "get away from the page and memorize your music".

I'm confident/hopeful that the guys on this forum can vouch for my method.

There it is,.... I hope this helps.

[steveb98]

Originally Posted by Don't_Fret

Try not to move around too much. Stay mostly in the first position to start, so you can focus on the content of your lines and not where you are on the fretboard. This helped me greatly.

Something that helped me when doing this was octave displacement. What I mean by that is your trying to stay in a low position, your bass line wants to go up to, but you have run out of space. Take the next notes and drop them down and octave. The ear is happy because its hears the pitch it expected, it's just and octave down.

Once you get used to octave displacement it is a cool sound for your bag or trick. Start a line do the first few notes up and then drop down an octave for the last few. It really flows nicely.

[Bassist4Life]

Originally Posted by Todd Johnson

The problem is that you're bombarded with choices (to a point).....It becomes a case of "here's what you COULD do"....in short order the student "generally" becomes paralyzed by "TOO MANY CHOICES"..... and if there is an exception to the rule or a wrong decision to be made, then the student will find it every time!!! It's "Murphy's Law" plain and simple.

Rather than telling you what you COULD do......my method tells you exactly what I want you TO DO!!! It breaks everything down into "bite size chunks" that you can digest,...rather than having you "choke" on too big a bite of information. Make sense???

Todd,

THANK YOU. You were able to put into words the way I am feeling about my situation. I'm sold. I just won some money in a weight-loss competition at my work. I was considering the purchase of a loop station. I will put that on my wish list and get your DVD (as well as some other bass related goodies). I will head over to your website soon and place my order. Thank you for your advice and comforting words. It's nice to know that I'm not the only bassist out there writing all of my lines down on paper. I'm looking forward to walking without a crutch.

Joe

[frstr8dmusician]

Originally Posted by Todd Johnson

[b]
I don't wish to sound like an infomercial.....BUT..... My "walking bass" DVD will take you through EXACTLY what it is you're trying to learn.

I can attest. I have used Todd's Walking Bass method. And guess what? IT WORKS! It is the most comprehensive Walking Bass method I have ever seen. Takes the mystery out of walking. My first reaction after I started watching it was: Wow! Why didn't I think of it? It is not one of those methods that take time to assimilate. It is incredibly simple and will work miracles for you... If you take the time to practice.
I promise you, you will get it and if you practice it daily, you will be coming up with lines on the fly real quick.

Full disclosure: I know Todd but he doesn't know my Alias on this forum and has no idea who is writing these words. More importantly, I guarantee you I am not writing this because I know him. I am saying this because I have seen myself go from being incapable of walking to looking for a Jazz Gig in a little over 2 Months. I really got that confident.

10-03

[Todd Johnson]

Originally Posted by Bassist4Life

Todd,

THANK YOU. You were able to put into words the way I am feeling about my situation. I'm sold. I just won some money in a weight-loss competition at my work. I was considering the purchase of a loop station. I will put that on my wish list and get your DVD (as well as some other bass related goodies). I will head over to your website soon and place my order. Thank you for your advice and comforting words. It's nice to know that I'm not the only bassist out there writing all of my lines down on paper. I'm looking forward to walking without a crutch.

Joe

Hi Joe,

Cool......congrats on the weight loss victory!!! I'm working hard at that too.

Happy to help!!!

Play slow!

[Todd Johnson]

Originally Posted by frstr8dmusician

I can attest. I have used Todd's Walking Bass method. And guess what? IT WORKS! It is the most comprehensive Walking Bass method I have ever seen. Takes the mystery out of walking. My first reaction after I started watching it was: Wow! Why didn't I think of it? It is not one of those methods that take time to assimilate. It is incredibly simple and will work miracles for you... If you take the time to practice.
I promise you, you will get it and if you practice it daily, you will be coming up with lines on the fly real quick.

Full disclosure: I know Todd but he doesn't know my Alias on this forum and has no idea who is writing these words. More importantly, I guarantee you I am not writing this because I know him. I am saying this because I have seen myself go from being incapable of walking to looking for a Jazz Gig in a little over 2 Months. I really got that confident.

10-03

frstr8dmusician,

Thanks so much for the kind words!!

I'm also glad that the walking DVD has been so beneficial to you. That's precisely why I made it!!!

Keep up the good work!!!

[SmittyG]

I mailed off my order for the DVD yesterday. I've had such good results with Todd's technique DVD that I can't wait to getting into the walking one.