Active/passive switch on L2K - Page 2

metron · #21 03-26-2009, 08:50 AM

Well last night I tried A/Bing passive mode with battery in and out on my '83 L2000e. Sorry peeps I am not hearing it. At first I just pulled the battery and fired up my amp. Initially I thought "Wow it sounds a bit clearer" as I had read in this thread. Then I actually did a side by side where I held the battery to the connector and plucked with my other hand, then pulled the battery from the connector without a break in playing. No difference in tone. I guess it was my imagination.

I think I will keep my battery in. Plus I am just starting to discover how much I like active mode.

**Chef** · #22 03-26-2009, 11:39 AM

that mirrors my followup...

wyleeboxer · #23 03-26-2009, 12:42 PM

Interesting, I know my gain knob on my amp doesnt lie and there was a drop in output, I'm assuming b/c of the missing low end from the bass? Im going to try my tribute L2000 next?

sunbeast · #24 03-26-2009, 01:20 PM

It is very obvious in my L2000e- I also AB'd it by removing and replacing the battery several times and there was a huge change in the amount of midrange and lows- with the battery, passive sounded very deep but kind of dull, and without it the sound got very percussive and lost some of the "thump" that I sometimes find muddy in a band context (I should add that my newer L2500 never sounded muddy in the same settings- its just the early 80s G&Ls that I've had that prob with). There are things I like about both, but I found that in my band the extra mids and "fret attack" made a pretty big difference. To really hear the difference, you might need to play for more than a few moments as well in each mode while AB'ing. Also be careful removing and replacing the battery while plugged in, because it can make a huge "POP" through the amp (which is proof that it is affecting the passive circuit- though the actual change in tone may be subjective).

I should add that my pickups are set kinda wonky- as I decribed in that "faux single coil" thing a while back, I have my switching modified (single coil mod + seperate volumes/ coil switches for each pickup), and I was playing through my Mesa D-180, which happens to be very sensitive to input signal. I did it briefly through my Carbine before a band practice as well though, and it was still easily noticeable to me.

I originally did this experiment because my L2000 started distorting slightly in passive mode and would make some funny noises. It turned out to be the battery going low- but the fact that a low battery was affecting my passive mode at all seemed pretty crazy to me. I plan to simply exchange the active/passive switch with a 4pdt on-on-on switch that will completely remove the pre in passive. Then I may change out the pre completely in the future if the need arises (I almost always play in passive, but love the Audere in one of my other basses).

Karl

JonW · #25 03-26-2009, 01:43 PM

Hey Folks,

Nice thread. I'm thinking about getting an L2500 as my first bass. One of the things I find appealing as the option to have it be both active and passive. A couple quick questions:

-About how long does the battery last? I know it will depend on how much you use it, etc. But is it days or months?

-How do you know when the battery is starting to die? Lower volume from the active pickup setting?

Thanks.

mainsail · #26 03-26-2009, 05:32 PM

Well, I've had my USA L2500 since around October of 07. I play several times a week at home and rehearsal one night a week and Sunday mornings. I leave the chord connected, so the battery is being drained.

I haven't changed this original battery yet. When I did a string change earlier this month, the battery checks shoed 9.2 volts.

The newer pre amps have come a long way.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonW

Hey Folks,

Nice thread. I'm thinking about getting an L2500 as my first bass. One of the things I find appealing as the option to have it be both active and passive. A couple quick questions:

-About how long does the battery last? I know it will depend on how much you use it, etc. But is it days or months?

-How do you know when the battery is starting to die? Lower volume from the active pickup setting?

Thanks.

Hugh Jass · #27 03-26-2009, 06:40 PM

Tried A/B-ing with battery in and out. Had the back off and played a groove with it connected and then the same groove unhooked (did it many times) and hardly noticed a difference. Maybe a bit clearer but it may have been my mind tricking me

. The difference was so minimal that it would not be worth losing the active option. You could probably do the same thing with very mild EQ tweaks.

For reference my L2K is an '07

JonW · #28 03-27-2009, 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mainsail

Well, I've had my USA L2500 since around October of 07. I play several times a week at home and rehearsal one night a week and Sunday mornings. I leave the chord connected, so the battery is being drained.

I haven't changed this original battery yet. When I did a string change earlier this month, the battery checks shoed 9.2 volts.

The newer pre amps have come a long way.

Super. Thanks for the info. That's much longer than I would have guessed. So nothing to worry about there.

millahh · #29 03-27-2009, 08:20 AM

Ok, I gave this a quick shot last night...and didn't notice any change in either gain or tone. This was even hitting an open A, letting it ring, and rapidly connecting & disconnecting the battery. The only thing I heard was was a slight crackling when the contacts first touched the battery terminals, but that's to be expected. Certainly nothing I'd describe as a "pop". This was both pickups, in parallel mode. Also, it was through my PODxt Live, rather than my amp.

I plan to do some more playing around tonight, listening for a difference in other pickup configurations. In the meantime, two thoughts/questions:

1). Is the difference heavily dependent on pickup configuration?

2). Did the wiring change at some point, such that the pickups are no longer loaded by the preamp in passive mode? I started to wonder about this when I read Sunbeast's observation that it made a big difference in his 2Ke, but not his 2.5K. This would be consistent with my observed lack of "pop" when connecting/disconnecting the battery.

FWIW, mine is a 2007 tribby.

metron · #30 03-27-2009, 08:59 AM

The varying experiences are interesting. I am going to try again this weekend. Maybe take a look at my wiring as well.

wyleeboxer · #31 03-27-2009, 10:30 AM

Ok I think it has something to do with the year of your bass or more specifically the pre-amp. My 05' Tribute L2000 doesnt or never seemed to have had the same low end "balls" that my US 95' L2000 did with the battery/s in, when comparing both in passive, series and both pups on, and now my US seems to have a similar sound to my Tribute when comparing the two, you know the US no longer has the scooped low end umphh tone anymore in passive mode. Perhaps its something G&L felt they needed to fix and did so over the past few years.

millahh · #32 03-27-2009, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wyleeboxer

Ok I think it has something to do with the year of your bass or more specifically the pre-amp. My 05' Tribute L2000 doesnt or never seemed to have had the same low end "balls" that my US 95' L2000 did with the battery/s in, when comparing both in passive, series and both pups on, and now my US seems to have a similar sound to my Tribute when comparing the two, you know the US no longer has the scooped low end umphh tone anymore in passive mode. Perhaps its something G&L felt they needed to fix and did so over the past few years.

The added oomph in the '95 is something other than a product of the OMG capacitors? Not sure when that change was made...

sunbeast · #33 03-27-2009, 01:18 PM

Its also possible that there is something wrong with my preamp- which could explain the slight distortion and weird noises I was getting sometimes when my battery was going low. However, my passive mode always sounded more or less the same before the low battery weirdness, minus the added noise. The difference became most obvious to me with the added "fret clack" with the battery out- I have to really dig in hard to get the strings to snap with the battery in, but with it out, it sounds similar to my old ebony-boarded SB-2 (ie- super percussive). This is mostly an effect of really low action, but wasn't nearly as noticeable before this battery experiment- as such, I had gotten used to playing this bass really, really hard in my old stoner-metal-ish band (and using lower gauge strings than I generally used to be comfortable with). Now I don't need to play nearly as hard to get a similar effect. I wish I had the tools to record samples with and without the battery in, as I'm sure most of you probably think I'm just hearing things...Maybe after my move I'll try to throw something together

Karl

wyleeboxer · #34 03-27-2009, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sunbeast

Its also possible that there is something wrong with my preamp- which could explain the slight distortion and weird noises I was getting sometimes when my battery was going low. However, my passive mode always sounded more or less the same before the low battery weirdness, minus the added noise. The difference became most obvious to me with the added "fret clack" with the battery out- I have to really dig in hard to get the strings to snap with the battery in, but with it out, it sounds similar to my old ebony-boarded SB-2 (ie- super percussive). This is mostly an effect of really low action, but wasn't nearly as noticeable before this battery experiment- as such, I had gotten used to playing this bass really, really hard in my old stoner-metal-ish band (and using lower gauge strings than I generally used to be comfortable with). Now I don't need to play nearly as hard to get a similar effect. I wish I had the tools to record samples with and without the battery in, as I'm sure most of you probably think I'm just hearing things...Maybe after my move I'll try to throw something together

Karl

I couldnt agree more with there being more fret clack, which can be easily EQ'ed out or technique changes help as well. But I also had the same problem with having to dig too hard b/f when the battery was in to get the highs to really speak out like they do now, which is really noticable when Im playing live. I'm playing tonight at a place we always play at, its the first time without the battery in, so I should have good idea after the 1st set...

sunbeast · #35 03-28-2009, 02:57 AM

I like the "clack" though! If you use it right, it sounds fantastic in a rock/metal mix (think Steve Harris or Al Cisneros). But I agree about the added articulation. It was the Fender-ish element that I found most lacking in the L2000 tone (and the reason I've experimented with the single coil mod and the countless array of different pickup and polepiece heights). I love the "oomph" of the L2000 tone, it just needs/ed a little work to find the "breath" that I like. And I'm glad I'm not the only one that notices a difference! Maybe we're both crazy. Either way, I plan to modify my active/passive switch whether or not there is a noticeable tonal difference- I certainly don't need my passive tone distorting when the battery gets low.

Karl

DavePlaysBass · #36 03-28-2009, 10:00 AM

Another thing that could open things up and get some of that Harris "clack" which is also one of my favorite metal sounds (pun intended) is the 1000pF capacitor that sits at the output of the pickup select switch. This cap is basically loading down the pups and sucking highes off of them. It is about as much capacitance as a 20' instrument cable. This cap is not used on the Climax or L-1500. This cap can be good for eliminating high frequency noise but it significantly shapes the high end response of the pickups.

I lifted this cap before on my long gone L2500 and it added some high end definition. But in those days I was more of an active man and did not want it or need it. But I have a L2K that has never completely knocked my socks off and I am thinking a good passive wiring may be where I need to go.

wyleeboxer · #37 03-28-2009, 03:51 PM

Last night at the show I had too do some major EQ tweaking, much more then i did at band rehearsal the other night. Perhaps I was playing harder at the show or the different room, or b/c I need to use my 115 ext cab at the venue? but either way much more highs and i had to dial up some more lows from the amp as well, with the on-board bass still boosted to 100% which I could never do before.. eventually I got my tone together which is now little more dirty higher end Fender jazz sounding then the old active/passive low bass monster my L2000 used to sound like with battery. I know Im not hearing things, and Im sure there is some bypassing of the preamp capacitors that have something to do with it?