New L2500 fretless - where's the "mwah"?

[scubaduba]

Just received my fretless... but I'm not really getting that "mwah" sound. So I put on some D'Addario flatwounds on yesterday to try and help. No go. What does it take?

[Ken Baker]

For the most part, it takes really low action and an essentially flat (no relief) neck.

Fretless G&Ls leave the factory with the nut cut for a fretted bass and "normal" relief. There's actually a lot to jockey around when tuning for maximum mwah - file the nut, adjust the trussrod, adjust the saddles, maybe shim the neck - so unless you're experienced with this it might be good to take it to a tech or luthier that knows his/her way around fretless basses.

Ken...

[metron]

You should get more mwah out of roundwounds.

[unclejane]

Originally Posted by scubaduba

Just received my fretless... but I'm not really getting that "mwah" sound. So I put on some D'Addario flatwounds on yesterday to try and help. No go. What does it take?

My L2500 also has no mwaah at all, and neither does my L2000.

I have both basses setup right on the gnats ass with the action as low as I can get it, nut as low as I'm comfortable taking it and the relief of the board as flat as possible. Regardless of string type there's no mwaah at all.

I suspect it's due to the ebony finger boards on them. Ebony seems to eliminate virtually all the mwaah...

My tobias 6 string has a rosewood board and it had lots of mwaah, and when I epoxied it the mwaah got so pronounced it became annoying.

I've played some other rosewood fretlesses and they give a pretty pronounced mwaah...

Personally, I strongly prefer the lack of mwaah, as I like a more fretted sound without the whine....

LS

[BobaMosfett]

Yup, rounds give you more mwah.

I have a fretless L1500 that sounds amazing. But, like Ken said, I had to file the nut and tweak the neck first. I really don't get why they would make fretless basses with a 'fretted' setup like this. Even a much cheaper fretless yamaha I used to own had a nice low nut.

Anyway, Ken is right.

[unclejane]

Originally Posted by BobaMosfett

Yup, rounds give you more mwah.

I have a fretless L1500 that sounds amazing. But, like Ken said, I had to file the nut and tweak the neck first. I really don't get why they would make fretless basses with a 'fretted' setup like this. Even a much cheaper fretless yamaha I used to own had a nice low nut.

Anyway, Ken is right.

I think it's a production compromise, that virtually every manufacturer does.

They make the fretless models based on the fretted ones, they just simply don't put frets in some of the necks that have already had fret slots cut and install the plastic inserts instead (this is probably why unlined versions are harder to find or even a custom option). Everything else is the fretted hardware too, including the nut. This is probably so they don't have to retool much to make the (far less popular) fretless models of their basses.

I.e. notice on your fretless G&L that the saddles on the bridge have to be very low with the ones on the sides (the G and E or B) bottomed out to get the action sufficiently low. In fact, on both my L2000 and 2500 I had to deepen the G string saddles with my nut files in order to get the action low enough on the G. The E on my L2000 I had to do this too.

Like I said, even the high-end mass produced fretlesses are like this too. My tobias 6 string has all the saddles almost completely bottomed out and it's obvious that the fingerboard is almost too low and nearly outside the adjustment range of the bridge.

To do it right, of course, the fingerboard would be higher or a different bridge would be used. But that'd be expensive as you'd have to make 2 different necks and different hardware, etc.

A little annoying to me, but also understandable. And you still have a fine bass in the end....

LS

[Chef]

zactly.
great post.

Originally Posted by Ken Baker

For the most part, it takes really low action and an essentially flat (no relief) neck.

Fretless G&Ls leave the factory with the nut cut for a fretted bass and "normal" relief. There's actually a lot to jockey around when tuning for maximum mwah - file the nut, adjust the trussrod, adjust the saddles, maybe shim the neck - so unless you're experienced with this it might be good to take it to a tech or luthier that knows his/her way around fretless basses.

Ken...

[Ken Baker]

Originally Posted by unclejane

They make the fretless models based on the fretted ones, they just simply don't put frets in some of the necks that have already had fret slots cut and install the plastic inserts instead (this is probably why unlined versions are harder to find or even a custom option). Everything else is the fretted hardware too, including the nut. This is probably so they don't have to retool much to make the (far less popular) fretless models of their basses.

Current nuts are cut with the Plek. Pre-Plek was done by hand. Either way, the fretless nut slots are WAY too shallow. So are the fretted slots, for that matter. I filed the slots on my new L-2500 to bring the clearance into spec. This isn't just a G&L thing either.

I.e. notice on your fretless G&L that the saddles on the bridge have to be very low with the ones on the sides (the G and E or B) bottomed out to get the action sufficiently low. In fact, on both my L2000 and 2500 I had to deepen the G string saddles with my nut files in order to get the action low enough on the G. The E on my L2000 I had to do this too.

Like I said, even the high-end mass produced fretlesses are like this too. My tobias 6 string has all the saddles almost completely bottomed out and it's obvious that the fingerboard is almost too low and nearly outside the adjustment range of the bridge.

You probably could have avoided filing the saddles by shimming the neck. Doesn't take much at all.

Ken...

[unclejane]

Originally Posted by Ken Baker

Current nuts are cut with the Plek. Pre-Plek was done by hand. Either way, the fretless nut slots are WAY too shallow. So are the fretted slots, for that matter. I filed the slots on my new L-2500 to bring the clearance into spec. This isn't just a G&L thing either.

I think the nut is cut this way on purpose as they're too high even on factory new fretted models. This allows you to cut it down to the height you want, some players prefer a super high nut and others like myself like it as low as possible.

You probably could have avoided filing the saddles by shimming the neck. Doesn't take much at all.

Ken...

That's why I invested in a good set of nut files from stew-mac, so I don't have to take apart perfectly good new basses to add shims And the necks aren't removable on neck-throughs anyway

LS

[Ken Baker]

Originally Posted by unclejane

...And the necks aren't removable on neck-throughs anyway

Now, THERE'S a good point!

Ken...

[RobJ]

I had Mike Lull level/re-radius the fretboard and install a new nut on my L-1500 and she mwaahs all day long if I want her to. He also put on a set of Rotosound flats for me (the monel ones, don't recall the model right now). This bass just sings now; having this work done was well worth the money.

Being new to fretless, this is my first and only, I had no idea what a diifference this would make. I liked the bass fine when I bought it but it just didn't feel right to me so I took it to Mike for his opinion and subsequent work.

[BrentSimons]

I would think that the pickup configuration/eq would have something to do with the mwah as well. Both pickups in parallel would probably remove some nice "mwah enhancing" mids. I would try the bridge pickup soloed in parallel or series(a la Jaco) or both pickups in series. Compression is nice to enhance mwah as well as a 500hz boost. Hope this helps.
Brent

[sunbeast]

Originally Posted by BrentSimons

I would think that the pickup configuration/eq would have something to do with the mwah as well. Both pickups in parallel would probably remove some nice "mwah enhancing" mids. I would try the bridge pickup soloed in parallel or series(a la Jaco) or both pickups in series. Compression is nice to enhance mwah as well as a 500hz boost. Hope this helps.
Brent

I agree with this- I think single coil would be optimum for the most "mwaah", but that is not an option on an L2500. As it goes, I would try lowering the pickups significantly and soloing the bridge pickup to cut out a little thickness and accentuate as much harmonic content as possible. With the pickups lowered, you can do some interesting experimentation with polepiece height as well- like try raising all the poles on just one of the coils on the bridge pickup to accentuate that particular harmonic area- I have my L2000 setup this way (I chose the coil on the bridge pickup that is farther from the bridge), and it seems to make the tones clearer in both parallel and series modes (though it is not a fretless bass, so this is all just my guess as to helping your situation!).

Karl

[Timmay on bass]

G&L doesn't have this on their website, but you can get the 3 position "K" switch that gives you series/single coil/parallel for no additional cost on new USA L2000, L2500 & ASAT basses. They have a fretless L2K And L2500 at Bass NW that get pleanty of "mwah".

[sunbeast]

Finally! They maybe took notice of us modders!

Karl

Originally Posted by Timmay on bass

G&L doesn't have this on their website, but you can get the 3 position "K" switch that gives you series/single coil/parallel for no additional cost on new USA L2000, L2500 & ASAT basses. They have a fretless L2K And L2500 at Bass NW that get pleanty of "mwah".