10" Eminence Selection

bobby1781 · #1 01-11-2011, 11:15 AM

Hello,

fEarful cab is well... starting to take shape. Large shape. As I finish it up, i want it too look as cool as it sounds and decided that my first one is not going to leave the house. I do not have any reasonable means to transport it to a friends house for jams and my Peavey combo weighs way more than I feel like carrying down his stairs at 2am after playing. (I think they used iron poly-fill in the 80's)

I like to build things, so even though there are several combos that will work just fine, I want to make my own. I have taken a lot of time with the fEarful and trust it will live up to its reputation when finished. I understand all the sacrifices that will have to be made in a small 10" cabinet and that is ok with me, but if I am going to do it, I still want to do it to the best it can do for what it is.

I plan to run this 10" sealed just to keep the cabinet size down, although if I can tweak the dim. enough to squeeze a vent in there I wont completely rule it out. Depending on the feedback from TB, as I have 0 experience with these drivers I have not determined if it will be single 10" or 10/1, maybe even 10 and small mid range (I really like the sound of a clean smooth mid range for upper freq. than a tweeter)

I will be running a little GK MB200 head to power the amp.

So...

Basslite CA2010 93.5db Xmax 3.5 Res. 51hz Usable 48-7k
Basslite CH2010 96.7db Xmax 3.5 Res. 58hz Usable 54-3k
Basslite S2010 96.2db Xmax 4.0 Res. 46hz Usable 54-4k

I realize I have left off several important specs, I just figure that the people who will reply are familiar with the drivers characteristics.

Again, I realize going small and limiting to 10" drivers creates sacrifices, I am not going to be overly critical as this will be used to play with my buddy on drums (he will play quiet enough) for fun. Just trying to figure out which drivers and configuration would work best in the given situation.

johnk_10 · #2 01-11-2011, 11:24 AM

i had four CA2010's and i thought that they sounded great, but the aluminum cones on all of them constantly seperated from the outer treated cloth rings. i had to re-epoxy them a couple of times. hopefully eminence has rectified that problem by now. i replaced all of them with 2510's and i'm happy with the way that they sound.

greenboy · #3 01-11-2011, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobby1781

fEarful cab is well..

What fEARful?

bobby1781 · #4 01-11-2011, 12:44 PM

I am doing a 15/6 built to your exact specs. The only difference is in the cosmetics, I am doing a bit something I liked from my old custom car audio days thing. Instead of a traditional grill or bare wooden face, I am taking a piece of wood that has the rear routered around the speaker basket so that when it fits over the drivers only the surrounds are left exposed (sorta a countersunk look?) The edges smoothed and rounded in similar to a tweeter waveguide. It is a thin piece so it shouldn't really effect any of the wave itself. Then out on the edges of the cab fiberglass molded up to create a flush finish with the edge of the cab. Sides all stained dark, with that center piece smooth and painted (haven't decided to go black or exotic like a deep ruby red color) Then 2 thin metal rods straight across the driver for a tiny bit of protection and a bit of esthetics. I was moving along on it pretty well, but then I moved to an apartment, now I have limited time between when I get home and when it gets dark and the whole neighbor quiet time stuff. Not having a garage I build in my living room... It's tricky, but a made a bed for the new place and some cool cabinets in that living room lol. I share it with the most understanding woman alive I think.

greenboy · #5 01-11-2011, 12:54 PM

Hey Bobby, just didn't see what the original post had to do with fEARfuls and yet they were mentioned at the very top. I was squeezing my poor pitiful brain trying to figure that out ; }

What you are doing sounds beautiful cosmetically, but as in all baffle edges, standoffs, etc - including the stock generic apporach on the fEARful plans - it will affect the sound. And as you get that close to the driver edge with anything, the diffraction issues will be a lot more obvious. If you can minimize the transition depth by spreading it across the baffle further it'll help.

Anyway, I can't wait to see pictures.

bobby1781 · #6 01-11-2011, 01:07 PM

Oh ya.. I guess I just mentioned it to clarify that I (eventually) will have a cab to cover sound quality and volume and that my new goal was portability. Because if I cant play with a drummer or guitarist more I am going to be that cliche person owning a race car with no idea how to take a corner lol.

I think..then overthink....then get a headache and walk away...then come back and change my idea. I have been thinking of a way to do what you suggested while keeping the integrity of the baffle strong enough for removal and thin enough to make the driver as oblivious as possible to it if I can.

I haven't even started the baffle so I am still kicking around ideas to create a really classy look without sacrificing sound. I plan to take apart the head as well and make a case for it to match the cabinet but running my own knobs and so forth, but that's a ways away.

Anyways, did you have any input on the OP for the 10" drivers?

PS, I really do appreciate all the time and work you and the others have put into your designs. I know its not always the easiest thing to devote so much effort just so others can enjoy what you have learned. Unfortunately I am not signing some big endorsement check for your design, I am just reminding you that a few of us nobody DIY'ers are having a lot of fun and learning a lot from it. So thanks.

1n3 · #7 01-11-2011, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobby1781

So...

Basslite CA2010 93.5db Xmax 3.5 Res. 51hz Usable 48-7k
Basslite CH2010 96.7db Xmax 3.5 Res. 58hz Usable 54-3k
Basslite S2010 96.2db Xmax 4.0 Res. 46hz Usable 54-4k

Refer to the datasheets for these speakers, specifically to Recommended Enclosure Volumes. Of these three speakers, only the CA2010 is recommended for use in a sealed cab.

This isn't a highly-studied opinion, but I would choose the S2010, based on several factors, including sensitivity, resonant frequency, xmax/xlim, and price. And I would port it - think you'd give up too much low-end with a small sealed cab. If you use braced 3/8" or 1/2" plywood, the weight increase should be fairly small, and the cab will still be very portable.

rpsands · #8 01-11-2011, 01:34 PM

You'll do better with a 1.2cf ported 3012HO cabinet than any of the basslites IMHO. The woofer cost is worth the huge increase in both output and max output at the same size, IMHO.

Anyone looking to build a practice cabinet will have a hard time doing much better than that in size to output ratio.

A basslite S2012 in a ~1.5 cubic foot sealed box would be my second choice for a practice cab if it had to be sealed.

Building a Jack 110 with a deltalite would be another excellent way to go

bobby1781 · #9 01-11-2011, 02:07 PM

thanks for the other options, I will check into those now...

greenboy · #10 01-11-2011, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rpsands

You'll do better with a 1.2cf ported 3012HO cabinet than any of the basslites IMHO.

If you are after Small, indeed: you have to give up low end authority or SPL. If you are willing to trade some lows, the 3012HO is better than any 10" driver for sensitivity and TRUE power handling while still suitable for electric bass.

bobby1781 · #11 01-11-2011, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greenboy

If you are after Small, indeed: you have to give up low end authority or SPL. If you are willing to trade some lows, the 3012HO is better than any 10" driver for sensitivity and TRUE power handling while still suitable for electric bass.

Am I reading this right? trade some lows relative to the 10" drivers I mentioned? or trade some lows compared to the other 12" drivers rpsands mentioned?

I am going for small, but let's face it 20lbs or 30lbs is moot point if anything else is being sacrificed. However, if the 12" driver is just to give me more sheer output, that is not my goal. I guess to sort of compare my goals say the fEarful is sitting there in the living room, it's the 4'x8' planner speakers with it's own monoblock on each channel and sub under each. This little travel amp... well its for sitting 2 feet away from, a little 15 watt Class A amp running through some 5.25" Focal midrange for listening to music at work... wonder how long it will take for my long winded tangents to get annoying.

I am open to anything really, I started this thread with only one brain's rough draft: quality 10" driver in small sealed enclosure with a lightweight class D amp that i can literally carry in one hand with my bass in the other and play along with the friends.

Would I vent the enclosure, sure
Would I use a 12" driver, sure

it opens up more questions to me with also, would the 10" driver play linear enough to run without a HF driver? Would moving to a 12" driver work best if adding a 4" mid?

1.2cu.ft. and a 12 doesn't sound bad to me at all if it is still sticking to my goals.

I still haven't looked at this Jack 110, I am off to do that now

bobby1781 · #12 01-11-2011, 02:36 PM

oh wow, I just checked out the chart on the 3012HO looks like it runs flatter up the freq range than any of those 10"'s do...

rpsands · #13 01-11-2011, 02:41 PM

Since you're talking about a sealed 10 it's clear to me that you either don't know what that means for low end or don't care about extensive low end. If it's the latter, you would be better off using a 3012HO ported, as you'd get craploads of output from 80-1500hz polar, and up to 4khz on-axis.

For what you're describing - a tiny practice cab - a 3012HO or a S2012 in a small box is the way to roll. Lots of volume in a small box.

If you want a full range small portable box, I would get an Acme B1 and not reinvent the wheel - or copy Sundogue's 10/6 with a BP102 design.

bobby1781 · #14 01-11-2011, 02:47 PM

I am ruling the jack out just for the fact that it seems its over 2.5cu.ft. which defeats the use of the smaller driver at least in my specific goal.

On the 3012HO, I see it is efficient as hell on paper, but the power handling is so much higher. Remember I am looking to power this with an MB200 so about 140watts at 8ohms if I recall. I want a driver that isn't begging for more power. This could be a bad misunderstanding on my part.

bobby1781 · #15 01-11-2011, 02:57 PM

I understand how a sealed 10 effects low end. I originally stated that I knew there would be tradeoffs with my goal and assumed it was understood what those trade offs would be. I just didn't quite grasp greenboys wording and didn't want to assume I knew something I might not. A lot of drivers have different application goals and as there are 8" subwoofers with crazy excursion and large 10" drivers with incredible upper frequency I just didn't know where the 3012HO fell as I had not looked at it before. I get that physics are physics, but there is room to play within the rules. I have read a ton of your posts, and will be the first to admit you have me trumped in this area so with your advice I will adjust the original idea with your suggestions. It's not about reinventing the wheel either, I enjoy building things as much as I enjoy anything. Even if it ends up with an audio signature that is a little off from what I could have bought, its fun to play through something that I created.

rpsands · #16 01-11-2011, 03:02 PM

I ran the 3012HO with a 150 watt PA mixer, an MB500, an F1, etc. It sounds good at every volume. It's *so loud* for a single woofer.

It's pretty close to an 8 ohm 2x10 in sensitivity.

The whole "wanting more power" thing is so goofy..just misinformation imho.

smoov · #17 01-11-2011, 04:02 PM

also to keep it light, get some 7 ply 1/2" plywood. should be able to get a 1x12 cab to 24 lbs with a neo in it.

greenboy · #18 01-11-2011, 04:05 PM

Cheap 5-ply Arauco is just as fine if you get the bracing right. Also been hoping to hear someone around here is finally building with Falcata ply.

rpsands · #19 01-11-2011, 04:25 PM

My 3/8" BCX 3012HO cabinet was 20lbs finished and worked like a champ. I believe someone on the board is still using that thing with a Basslite in it =P

bobby1781 · #20 01-12-2011, 10:27 AM

Alright so what's the deal with Falcata? You mentioned it so I looked it up and well, where do you get it?

I almost feel like I bit on a joke because every search result pretty much has me importing from Indonesia or the Philippines. What's the deal with this stuff?

rpsands: it sounds like you might have had a chance to hear both the s2012 and 3012HO in your same cab? Sorry for going over and over this just trying to be as clear as I can about a speaker without getting to use my ears....hard.

Do I have this correct, the 3012HO will sacrifice low end in direct comparison to the s2012 however will have a greater SPL that you feel is worth the trade? Unfortunately both graphs only go down to 100hz and at that level both drivers have rolled off approximately 2db from 200hz. I cant tell from there how steep the 3012HO will roll off compared to the s2012.

Personally for me, I would trade (within reason) the SPL for improved sound quality with a lower extension. Granted I don't want to give up a all my volume just to gain a tiny bit more low end.

If you did get to hear both drivers in your cab, could just compare and contrast a little bit for me? Overall sound quality, low extension, clarity, how pleasing or displeasing the upper frequency range sounds? Can both drivers run full range or would the s2012 really benefit from a midrange? I really appreciate all the input.