10" subwoofers in an Ampeg 8x10 cab?

[JohnRardin]

Hey this is my first post but I can't seem to find information on this ANYWHERE. Recently I asked the advice of my area's main repair technician about how to improve bass tone. He's insanely knowledgeable about this kinda thing cuz he's been building guitars and amps by hand for a long time. Hes the master.

I explained to him that I play a 5 string Warwick through a Peavey Tour 450 head and an Ampeg 8x10" and I want to improve overall sound. Instantly he suggested replacing speakers, one by one if necessary, and said the the difference is unbelievable.

When i mentioned the fact that I play a 5 string with a lot of lows and an octave effect, he suggested replacing the bottom two speakers with 10" subwoofers using a $2 crossover that he could make custom. Sounds awesome right?

Well after some research I'm finding the obvious problem with this is the 32ohm resistance needed and no one makes a sub like that. The Eminence replacement speakers look great but have similar frequency response so that doesn't look like the route for me. Is it possible to convert other subs to 32ohm?

The other, simpler option may be to run an extension sub cab but what I have already takes up too much space in the trailer. Not to mention the cost of that would be more that itd be worth unless I traded for a smaller cab.

Anyone ever heard of using subwoofers in an 8x10 or had any experience with this? It must be hard because I can't find anyone else doing it. Any info would be awesome, thanks!!

[Mr. Foxen]

10" woofer drivers most likely won't work very well in a small sealed box like a section of an Ampeg 8x10. If you connected two sections by perforating the baffle, and put 2 10" woofers in, and covered the remaining holes, adding a correctly tuned port, and ran a separate amp into it, that would probably sort you for more lows, but is a massive waste of effort. Sealed 8x10s don't do awesome lows, using a sub and another amp along with a sealed 4x10 run covering the rest of the range will likely serve you better. All the tone 'flavour' is in the mids which the 4x10 covers, the lows are provided by the sub, and the footprint won't be far off the 8x10, with an easier 2 part carry.

Since you'd have to run two amps to do anything like what you are planning, the impedance (not resistance) isn't very relevant.

[billfitzmaurice]

Originally Posted by JohnRardin

Anyone ever heard of using subwoofers in an 8x10 or had any experience with this? It must be hard because I can't find anyone else doing it.

No one else does it because it won't work. You can't just stick a subwoofer driver in any box and get a good result. SVT can get more low end by porting it, but the difference won't be huge, as the drivers it uses don't work much better in a ported enclosure than sealed. If you want an 810 with considerably more low end you need it ported, with drivers that work well ported, and in that case a different cab is the easiest and less expensive way of getting there.

[BassMaster4s]

I would suggest trading your sealed ampeg 810 for a ported ampeg 610 Problem solved, and you have (slightly) more room in the trailer

[BigOldHarry]

Or get a better cab. My Epifani 4x10 gets nearly subsonic lows.

And I have to say: I've *never* seen anyone complain about a "lack of lows" from an SVT 'fridge cab... Maybe it's your head...???

[Mr. Foxen]

Originally Posted by BigOldHarry

Or get a better cab. My Epifani 4x10 gets nearly subsonic lows.

And I have to say: I've *never* seen anyone complain about a "lack of lows" from an SVT 'fridge cab... Maybe it's your head...???

I do often. They are rubbish. They sound nice, but as soon as a detuned guitar gets involved, you can only hear the clank. I suspect they are entirely to blame for loads of metal bass being clanky and rubbish. Now I think about it, possibly also why sound men are in the habit of taking a DI for the bass to run the lows through the PA. All well and good if you have a PA that can do lows.

[coreyfyfe]

Originally Posted by BigOldHarry

And I have to say: I've *never* seen anyone complain about a "lack of lows" from an SVT 'fridge cab... Maybe it's your head...???

Big +1 to this. In fact the complaint that I usually hear about modern ampeg 8x10 cabs is that they're muffled and boomy. How are you eqing your head? How are you eqing your bass for that matter?

[bovine mind]

Originally Posted by Mr. Foxen

I do often. They are rubbish. They sound nice, but as soon as a detuned guitar gets involved, you can only hear the clank. I suspect they are entirely to blame for loads of metal bass being clanky and rubbish. Now I think about it, possibly also why sound men are in the habit of taking a DI for the bass to run the lows through the PA. All well and good if you have a PA that can do lows.

+1. In STANDARD tuning, I think they perform just fine, and provide a decent amount of low end that can be felt given the the right amp and EQ settings. The frequency response of the cab is listed as down to 58hz. Anyone droptuning are pushing well below that, especially in my case, tuning to drop C and A. I added a 410HLF and it helped alleviate the problem, but I'm waiting on getting my Sunn 215 repaired and ditching the 810E all together.

[BigOldHarry]

Originally Posted by bovine mind

+1. In STANDARD tuning, I think they perform just fine, and provide a ddcent amount of low end that can be felt given the the right amp and EQ settings. The frequence response of the cab is listed as down to 58hz. Anyone droptuning are pushing well below that, especially in my case, tuning to drop C and A. I added a 410HLF and it helped alleviate the problem, but I'm waiting on getting my Sunn 215 repaired and ditching the 810E all together.

Ah... Well, since I'm well past the age where I'd be likely to want to A) play or B) hear any of the popular "Drop tuned" music that the "young folks" seem to dig these days, I wouldn't know if an SVT could do *that* job or not -- it certainly has always done the job in the past... albeit in a rather muddy fashion...

Well, it sounds like the OP wants something different. Like my Epi 4x10!!! I'm selling it, you know...

[Mr. Foxen]

Originally Posted by BigOldHarry

Ah... Well, since I'm well past the age where I'd be likely to want to A) play or B) hear any of the popular "Drop tuned" music that the "young folks" seem to dig these days, I wouldn't know if an SVT could do *that* job or not -- it certainly has always done the job in the past... albeit in a rather muddy fashion...

Well, it sounds like the OP wants something different. Like my Epi 4x10!!! I'm selling it, you know...

The only reason you can't hear the horrible low tunings is because the cabs don't cope. It's only high frequency that dulls with age.

Actually, playing standard tuning into a cab that can produce decent bottom is ridiculously bassy. It's my current favoured sound, I got the cabs to cope with my previous low A tuning.

[bovine mind]

Originally Posted by Mr. Foxen

The only reason you can't hear the horrible low tunings is because the cabs don't cope. It's only high frequency that dulls with age.

Actually, playing standard tuning into a cab that can produce decent bottom is ridiculously bassy. It's my current favoured sound, I got the cabs to cope with my previous low A tuning.

Agreed on all [ subjective ] points. What cabs/amp setup are you using for drop A?

[rbonner]

Hello John and welcome to TB. I've been messing around with this problem a bit over the past year. Here's the deal. The "Midyears OSB" 810 cab is strong from about 50 or 55HZ-2500 tapering off quickly in either direction.

What you hear as a complaint from most is the cab sounds DARK or muddy compared to the original square backed 810. I don't agree with muddy, but it is darker.

I have one of those cabs and three of the NEW ASIAN Plywood cabs and they use a more modern speaker and are brighter. Most guys prefer the brighter sound.

I run SVT-4PRO amps and they have considerable power. Everything was fine around here until I modded my Jazz Bass to B-E-A-D and I had to turn the volume down on the 810 cabs to keep them sounding good.

I quickly fixed all problems by adding a second 4PRO and a second 810. I had plenty of power to hit the cabs and enough volume to do almost anything.

I experimented with the AMPEG 215e cabs and have two of them. With the power turned down a touch the 810's and 215's drive the same. The 215 is a great cab and has slightly more bottom end.

Now, you have some limits, space in the trailer etc. One suggested a 610HLF, that might help your situation. A pair of SVT410HLF's and a bigger amp, (the 4PRO likes two 410HLF's) would smoke the 810 and has a lot more bottom. I also have one SVT410HLF here. Some guys like the sound of the 410HLF over the 610HLF. You should try both.

BOB

[JohnRardin]

I get a decent amount of low end out of my current setup, especially after sonic maximizer, sansamp, and slight octave. Its doing what it's supposed to... I've just been under the impression that using a crossover and a subwoofer would be superior to what I have. What diameter would be best for porting the cab (if that would improve bass response)?

Mainly again Im interested in using a crossover and sub's to make full use of all the low B string that I use. Btw my band's going for more of a classic hardish rock vibe than metal for sure.

I've also imagined a setup that would use a footswitch to turn on an external sub cab for say a chorus where there'd be really booming lows. Any ideas? I still want to modify my cab for 10" woofers if possible but it doesn't look likely. THANKS!

oh if your're interested check out my band(Aside Oceans)'s new recordings! EP releases on June 22nd on Forsaken Records.

myspace.com/asideoceans

[Mr. Foxen]

Originally Posted by bovine mind

Agreed on all [ subjective ] points. What cabs/amp setup are you using for drop A?

Not drop A, A standard, ADGC, dislike drop tunings (where the bottom string is a tone down, so AEAD). Anyway, an Aguilar GS412, on occasions 2, in potential 3, since my housemate runs a pair (and does use drop A). They are very good, not stupid heavy considering, reasonably sensitive and go epically low, and have never farted out even with a Sunn 1200s pushing a low A at volumes that cause the sound engineer to complain he couldn't touch his sliders cause his desk was vibrating so much it hurt. His fault for having woofers that couldn't deal with low end. Here's a pic in action:


Running driven valves into the ABM8x10 for flavour, GS412 for lows.

That was with this band (record out soon!)

This one will be using the 3 GS412s, and some others, for bass

[tom once dead]

my 410he handles drop A easily, and still sounds tight and punchy. Maybe it's your bass or head.

[JohnRardin]

I love my bass tone, I'm just the kind to strive to constantly improve in any way possible

[Growly Lytes]

`I` would take all the speakers out of the 810 & replace them with Legend BP102... `ME` thats what i would do, but i dont think its a good idea to mess around with the cab its a legend in its own right isnt it ?
My 2 DIY 410 cabs are rippin man ! With the BP102 i get that much bottom-end its not funny.I tuned my 410`s @ around 42hz.
These are Subwoofers (BP102) all 8 of them !! And not using tweeters either.`TO ME` its sounds like `The Rig From Hell` awesome, madness. But some people dont believe me , ive posted clips on YT to prove it. Some will not accept that these speakers rock. I had a few little hassles at fisrt but when all was said & done it turned out great.

[xray]

Get a really good 15" or 18" cab to complement the SVT.

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by xray

Get a really good 15" or 18" cab to complement the SVT.

nah, the 810 will bury it.

if you like the 810 format but want lower, just get a ported 810. aggie, genz benz, and mesa all make great ported 810's.

[3506string]

I've heard a 4x10 that someone had replaced the bottom two blown speakers with mtx subwoofers. The best way I can describe it was a hot fart in a box. It was all boom with articulation.