Go Back   TalkBass Forums > Bass Guitar Forums > Bass Guitar Forums > Amps [BG]
Register Rules/FAQ/CUP Members List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read



Supporting Membership
Thank You

Latest Supporting Member
Donate to Upgrade Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
  #1  
Old 02-09-2013, 09:35 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
10" vs 12"

Hi guys thanks for allowing people like me access to your superb knowledge of all things that are bass. I have a question I am looking at purchasing one of the Ampeg PF combos but I don't know whether to go two ten inch or one twelve. Now to tell you about what I play. I have a fender Jazz bass mexican made. I play old country to eighties country. Ie merle, waylan, old george strait, Suzzy Boguss, and of course Johnny Cash just to name a few. Any help is appreciated if this is not the bass for me please speak up I am still open to options.
  #2  
Old 02-09-2013, 10:01 PM
TomB's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Burlington, Vt.
Supporting Member
Generally 2-10's will be a bit louder than a single 12 of the same manifacture if they show the same resistance (measured in ohms) to the amp, due to the larger cone area of the 210. Try them both, and see which one you like better.
__________________
Bass since '65
  #3  
Old 02-09-2013, 10:03 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
I have played two tens and like the punch but finding the two twelve version is proving to be difficult. I like two ten's but I wish they had a little more sustain
  #4  
Old 02-09-2013, 10:09 PM
Warhawk's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Canton, Ohio
Supporting Member
If that's what you are limited to I'd go with the two tens.
__________________
~Warhawk~

#1 Bass: 2007 G&L L-2000 #8 neck bem fingerboard Butterscotch Blonde swamp ash body; GK 1001RBII with GK NEO 8 ohm 4x10 cab "You can have this when ya pry it from my cold, dead fingers!"
  #5  
Old 02-09-2013, 10:13 PM
Warhawk's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Canton, Ohio
Supporting Member
Huh? Troll?
__________________
~Warhawk~

#1 Bass: 2007 G&L L-2000 #8 neck bem fingerboard Butterscotch Blonde swamp ash body; GK 1001RBII with GK NEO 8 ohm 4x10 cab "You can have this when ya pry it from my cold, dead fingers!"
  #6  
Old 02-09-2013, 10:16 PM
GregC's Avatar
Johnny and Joe
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Chicago
GOLD Supporting Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by magnum783 View Post
I have played two tens and like the punch but finding the two twelve version is proving to be difficult. I like two ten's but I wish they had a little more sustain
Keep in mind that 2X10 cabs can sound very different from one another depending on the design. Said another way, speaker size is not a determinant of tone. For example, my Ampeg 210AV cabinet is a punchy, bass-shy/mid-forward little box, while an Acme 210 (the B2) goes deep deep deep.

Also, are you sure a PF combo with 2 12s exists? I've only heard of the 210HE, the 1X15HE, the 410HLF and the 115HLF cabs that go with the PF heads, and that's all I see on Ampeg's site: http://www.ampeg.com/products/portaflex/index.html
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Munjibunga View Post
Organic: containing carbon compounds.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bloodhammer View Post
Really? I thought it meant flower women with hairy armpits willed it from the ground with power crystals from airport gift shops...
LOG #143
  #7  
Old 02-09-2013, 10:18 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Western NY
IMO the 12" will give you better tone.
The 10 inchers will be faster.
But I don't play country so maybe I should just get my coat.
__________________
Words are weapons in the hands of love.
G&L Club #500
  #8  
Old 02-09-2013, 10:19 PM
mjac28's Avatar
Patiently Waiting For The Next British Invasion.
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Ohio
GOLD Supporting Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warhawk View Post
Huh? Troll?
Huh?
__________________
Ohio Bassists Club # 230
Mark Hoppus Bass Club #3
Honorary Wisconsin Bassist Member #10
Fuzzrocious Club #134
Variax Bass Club #2
Club Verellen #3
Fender Cowpoke Club #36
Lone Wolf Club #5
  #9  
Old 02-09-2013, 10:26 PM
Srirachaglo's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: New York City
Supporting Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by shackled View Post
IMO the 12" will give you better tone.
The 10 inchers will be faster.
But I don't play country so maybe I should just get my coat.
There is no 12" PF cab, you're thinking of the PF-115HE (15").
__________________
Previously Ryanfenderbass/Pbass4003 (member since 01-15-2006)
P Bass club #840 - Ampeg PF club #287 - Flatwound club #145 - Rickenbacker club #485 - Bassists with ADD #2
  #10  
Old 02-09-2013, 11:05 PM
JimmyM's Avatar
Registered User

Endorsing: Ampeg
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Apopka, FL
Supporting Member
Speaker size has absolutely no bearing on the sound of the cab. If it did, then all cabs with the same size speakers would sound the same. And all speakers respond at the exact same speed...instantaneously. Thinking some are faster or slower than others is a result of the sound of the cab, not the actual speed of the speaker responding to the note.

Anyway, Ampeg doesn't make a PF112. Only PF 210, 410, and two different kinds of 115's. Only tried the PF210he and PF115he (own two of them). Both very good cabs, and you could make a case for either.
__________________
Ampeg Portaflex Club #1
  #11  
Old 02-10-2013, 09:14 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Orangevale, CA 95662
Supporting Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyM View Post
Speaker size has absolutely no bearing on the sound of the cab. If it did, then all cabs with the same size speakers would sound the same. And all speakers respond at the exact same speed...instantaneously. Thinking some are faster or slower than others is a result of the sound of the cab, not the actual speed of the speaker responding to the note.
Actually, that is not quite accurate.

[nitpicking]
In keeping with the long tradition of TB nitpicking, I have to point out the driver is mechanical, therefore instantaneous does not apply.
The voice coil has the property of induction.
Remember ELI the ICE man, where voltage leads current in an inductive circuit?

Last, all drivers have mass.
The mass is accelerated and decelerated by the motor (magnet assembly).
A hemi-powered dragster accelerates its mass faster than a Yugo because the horsepower to weight ratio is higher.
[/nitpicking]

OP, all humor aside, each model of driver has its own physical characteristics which determine its sound quality.
As noted above, you won't hear any differences in driver acceleration in the bass frequency range.
What you will hear is how loud one is compared with another (sensitivity) and frequency ranges (low and high).

The physical layout also affects the sound quality.
Vertical stacking restricts distribution in the vertical plane, and widens distribution in the horizontal plane.
Square layouts such as the typical 4x10 introduce peaks and valleys (combing) that varies by where the listener is positioned.

Very important is how the driver is housed.
Cabinet volume and tuning make huge differences in the bass response of a given driver.
Small cabs let them handle a bit more power, but mostly meet marketing and sales objectives, but with reduced low bass output.
Big boxes go down lower, offer a bit less power handling, and become a PIA at load-out time.

Sealed boxes offer 'tighter' bass response because they do not have the 90-degree lag time between note generation and vent output.
The price paid for sealed is less bass response for a given voltage, and a higher roll-off frequency.
Most electric bass drivers are optimized for vented boxes.

You can hear frequency response.
Woofers, i.e. Legend BP-102 are designed for low frequency use, and have no "sparkle" when used by themselves.
These are paired with smaller drivers, i.e. Alpha 6a that are good to 5,000 Hz or so.
Some players like the thud, others want something full range.
This is where it becomes subjective, and your opinion is the only one that matters.
  #12  
Old 02-10-2013, 09:30 AM
StrangerDanger's Avatar
Neo Maxi Zoom Dweebie
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: SATX by way of NOLA
Supporting Member
I thought this thread was about pizzas.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by gigslut View Post
I said, Sarah, could you play an "E" there? She screamed "DON'T TELL ME LETTERS! SHOW ME WHERE TO PUT MY FINGERS!"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Immigrant View Post
I still think it would work, but I'm really, REALLY wrong about most things.
  #13  
Old 02-10-2013, 10:38 AM
dukeorock's Avatar
Registered User

Authorized fEARful/FEARLESS/greenboy designs builder
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Nashville, TN
Supporting Member
Your time would be better spent looking for the cab that suits your needs best and forget about speaker size altogether. It really is a dead end street.

Think about how much cab you want to schlep, power handling and general tona preferences, and you'll get better answers and closer to something really useful for your needs.

Best of luck in your search!
__________________
BNA Audio, authorized fEARful/greenboy designs builder http://www.bnaaudio.com
http://www.facebook.com/BNAaudio
  #14  
Old 02-10-2013, 01:38 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
I am sorry guys I was totally incorrect it is only 2x10" or 1x15". I feel like a dork. I am looking for a quality sound and not so much budget confined. So if I need to spend a little more money than go with one of the PF sets please let me know.
  #15  
Old 02-10-2013, 01:44 PM
dukeorock's Avatar
Registered User

Authorized fEARful/FEARLESS/greenboy designs builder
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Nashville, TN
Supporting Member
Same rule applies...it's not so much about the size of the speaker, but what you are looking to get from your cab(s).

There are a ton of horrible 210's and 115's out there, and there are some pretty amazing ones as well...

Is a smaller, lighter cab important? Hi-fi? Old school? A little more detail and some folks can be very helpful to your search
__________________
BNA Audio, authorized fEARful/greenboy designs builder http://www.bnaaudio.com
http://www.facebook.com/BNAaudio
  #16  
Old 02-10-2013, 01:48 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by dukeorock View Post
Same rule applies...it's not so much about the size of the speaker, but what you are looking to get from your cab(s).

There are a ton of horrible 210's and 115's out there, and there are some pretty amazing ones as well...

Is a smaller, lighter cab important? Hi-fi? Old school? A little more detail and some folks can be very helpful to your search
Those are questions I never new to answer to get help. so here goes. Smaller not all that important I have plenty of space to store and transport. Hi-fi something I don't know enough to tell anyone about so if you can explain that I can answer that question. Old school nope I will buy what ever will produce the best sound. I like amps that have a DI as that seems to work really well with the sound guy but I think that is pretty much a standard with most modern day amps.
I hope that helps clarify. I am looking for a clean sound with good resense,'
  #17  
Old 02-10-2013, 01:52 PM
JimmyM's Avatar
Registered User

Endorsing: Ampeg
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Apopka, FL
Supporting Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by bgavin View Post
Actually, that is not quite accurate.

[nitpicking]
In keeping with the long tradition of TB nitpicking, I have to point out the driver is mechanical, therefore instantaneous does not apply.
The voice coil has the property of induction.
Remember ELI the ICE man, where voltage leads current in an inductive circuit?

Last, all drivers have mass.
The mass is accelerated and decelerated by the motor (magnet assembly).
A hemi-powered dragster accelerates its mass faster than a Yugo because the horsepower to weight ratio is higher.
[/nitpicking]
[suicide]

BANG!

THUD!

[/suicide]



OK OK! I get it...not instantaneously...just sounds like it. But still, you have to admit that what we perceive as slow and fast response in speakers is because of frequency response making us think that.

Throw me a bone here
__________________
Ampeg Portaflex Club #1
  #18  
Old 02-10-2013, 01:58 PM
dukeorock's Avatar
Registered User

Authorized fEARful/FEARLESS/greenboy designs builder
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Nashville, TN
Supporting Member
There's a lot of very different opinions on Talkbass about cabs, and everything else, for that matter...lots of them are great opinions. I don't always agree, but that's a good thing. Keep learning, keep growing and love the fact that there are a bunch of ways to achieve a great bass sound. Personally, I think bass cab design has come a very long way recently with forward thinkers like

greenboy (fEARful, FEARLESS, etc)
Alex Claber (Barfaced)
Duke LeJeune (AudioKinesis)
Baer

And I'm sure there's more that I've yet to have the pleasure of hearing. After a little research and comparing, you can find something you'll love...sadly, for me, they don't exists at a Guitar Center
__________________
BNA Audio, authorized fEARful/greenboy designs builder http://www.bnaaudio.com
http://www.facebook.com/BNAaudio
  #19  
Old 02-10-2013, 02:02 PM
BearCave's Avatar
Bass Is Best
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Supporting Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by StrangerDanger View Post
I thought this thread was about pizzas.
LOL!! :-)
__________________
"The biggest room in the world is the room for improvement."
Official Ampeg Club #923|Wisconsin Bassists Club #133
  #20  
Old 02-10-2013, 04:02 PM
ScottTunes's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Supporting Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by magnum783 View Post
Old school nope I will buy what ever will produce the best sound. ... I am looking for a clean sound with good resense,'
A little clarification: "Old Skool" refers to the sound cabinets in the 60s and 70s made. More thump and thud... Not a lot of clarity in the upper freqs. A sound I happen to prefer (i.e. Jamerson, Macca). You can achieve this with either 10s or 15s...

However, it seems you are searching for a modern bass sound - wide, full range, with detail and clarity. Again, achievable with 10s and/or 15s.

What do you mean by "resense?" Response? Resonance? Presence?

Bottom line (pun intended) is to listen to as many different cabinets as possible (preferably using your amp and bass), and learn what the differences mean regarding the sound you wish to hear. Only you can identify the sound that pleases you most.

Good hunting!!
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

Visit TalkBass on Facebook   Download our iOS app   Download our Android app

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:51 AM.




© 2012 Talk Music Group Inc. All rights reserved.
Play guitar too? Visit TalkGuitar.com
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.12
Copyright ©2000 - 2013, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.