100w of tubes enough?

[walterw]

Originally Posted by Tractorr

Or another possibility is run the 450 with the 8X10 as your clean rig to get low end. Then run the V4B cranked into your 2X10 but with the lows turned down so you don't blow the speakers. If you have a pedal that splits the signal great, if not get a Y cable.

first good idea in this thread! (well, other than "don't run the tube amp without a speaker load attached.")

use the ss amp into the big cab for actual power and low end (which the V4 will just not have at these volumes), then use the tube amp into the little cab for the overdrive grind to mix with the ss amp tone.

[Pills Are Yummy]

Originally Posted by walterw

first good idea in this thread! (well, other than "don't run the tube amp without a speaker load attached.")

use the ss amp into the big cab for actual power and low end (which the V4 will just not have at these volumes), then use the tube amp into the little cab for the overdrive grind to mix with the ss amp tone.

Should I put them in phase if i do this?

[walterw]

er, yes, always.

[BawanaRik]

Originally Posted by bassboysam

You still need a cab connected to the V4 otherwise you'll melt it. My 100 watt Traynor was loud enough i think you should be ok with the V4 unless you want massive lows and clean.

I may be wrong but I think that if you remove the power tubes you don't need a load on the output.

I like tubes. Cool things, cool sound. But bass takes power. Tubes really don't have that much power and when the power to weight comes in it seem to make sense to me to use a solid state amp and get a box that simulates tube overdrive.

I recall using a Champ for a bass amp. Sounded great. people would look at me wierd but within it's limits it's great.

It can't power a bass live competing with two half stacks and a drummer.

[Downunderwonder]

There are pedals you can get to do a proper biamp with two amps, or use a crossover and mini mixer.

With the unholy racket going on you can probably just split the instrument signal and have at it without any concerns with a simple faux EQ crossover.

[Duke21]

I must say, all of this idea of using the V4 as a preamp, and the 450 as a power amp sound unnecessary "complicated" and messy to me. Just do like Jimmy suggest, buy a SVT CL (sell the 450) and put it on a 8x10e cab. You can also consider SVT 4 Pro, SVT 7 Pro or even a SVT 8 Pro. If you really wants to carry a lot and hassle with gear then let the 8 Pro run two 8x10 cabs, you will end up with hearing damage but everybody will hear you...

[Tim1]

+1. Simple=good

[Pills Are Yummy]

Originally Posted by Duke21

I must say, all of this idea of using the V4 as a preamp, and the 450 as a power amp sound unnecessary "complicated" and messy to me. Just do like Jimmy suggest, buy a SVT CL (sell the 450) and put it on a 8x10e cab. You can also consider SVT 4 Pro, SVT 7 Pro or even a SVT 8 Pro. If you really wants to carry a lot and hassle with gear then let the 8 Pro run two 8x10 cabs, you will end up with hearing damage but everybody will hear you...

I am not made of money lol

If I sell everything to raise the $1200 it costs for an SVT, I'll still be stuck with these wimpy ass 2x10s cause I'll be dead broke by then. I doubt it will be too complicated, it's pretty simple actually...split the signal from the bass into the two rigs...and dude, 73 V4B with matching flat back 70's cabs for $1000! Cmaaan

[johng999]

High voltage is still present at the output transformer with the tubes pulled. I wouldn't do it.
Remember that 3dB of real cabinet efficiency improvement is equivalent to doubling your power. Some cabinets are much more efficient than others and will be louder. However, they will still have a max. dB level. Adding more speakers will increase efficiency and max dB (to a point).
I have a V4B, a Marshall JMP Super Bass, and a Reeves Custom 225. I had trouble playing really loud gigs with the 100w amps, even with a lot of efficient speakers. The Reeves, however, it enough.

[superdick2112]

Sell your rig & get a Hartke 1000 watt head & 1000 watt 4x10 cab = $1200 total cost.

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/ampli...&catId=site1HA

Add a 2nd 4x10 cab later when you can afford it. This rig will keep up with a pair of loud guitarists, and sounds like it would be in your price range.
The V4B is a very cool head, but way underpowered for your needs.
Asking a V4B to keep up with twin Marshalls is like bringing a wiffle ball ball bat to a gun fight...

[TheRealKong]

Ever thought of getting an Ampeg Pre? Nice warm, punchy sound, and you can use every power amp and cab you like.

For metal purposes I use my Ampeg SVP Pro with a SS poweramp, delivering 2 x 700 Watt @ 4 Ohm. I often use only one side when feeding my Tecamp L 810 or my SWR 212, loadet with two Beyma neo speakers, 600 Watt @ 4 Ohm.
Sometimes I use one Peavey TVX 410 and one TVX 210, one per output of the poweramp. No matter, what cabs I use, I am way loud enough.

I don't know the prices in the USA, in Germany you can get an Ampeg Pre for less than 400,-- Euro, that wll be about 520,-- USD. Maybe they are even cheaper in the US of A. Maybe you could trade your Mapeg - amp and get a Ampeg Pre. This would be a reasonable solution for your problems.

[Tractorr]

Oh another reason to turn down the bass on V4 beside not wanting to damage your 2X10 is then power section of the amp won't be trying to amplify all that low end and you will be able to hear the 2X10 over the 8X10.

[Bassmec]

Originally Posted by Tractorr

Oh another reason to turn down the bass on V4 beside not wanting to damage your 2X10 is then power section of the amp won't be trying to amplify all that low end and you will be able to hear the 2X10 over the 8X10.

Why not just give the 8 speaker coupling and thus massive increase in sensitivity to the 100 watt amp and leave the more inefficient 2 X 10 cab to get level by applying far more clean power to just under fart level thus getting a balanced level from each amp and cab combination.
Why would thin distortion be at all useful, it's fat distortion the V4b is loved and world famous for.
If you have a low power tube amp just get it enough efficient speakers
and it will be loud enough.

[edbass]

Originally Posted by BawanaRik

I like tubes. Cool things, cool sound. But bass takes power. Tubes really don't have that much power and when the power to weight comes in it seem to make sense to me to use a solid state amp and get a box that simulates tube overdrive.

Hmmm... I never noticed a deficiency in power using this amp;



I guess nobody told Reeves (or any other big power tube amp manufacturers) that "tubes really don't have that much power".
Somebody should clue them in so they stop wasting time on those "inferior" devices and stock up on some transistors so they can offer some powerful amps...

A transistor amp and some form of emulation is no doubt a lot cheaper to buy and easier to store and move; just the ticket for the hobbyist or casual player who likes to play rock star occasionally.
However while the "tube poseur" rigs are continually improving, regretfully those inexpensive, light rigs still pretty much sound like... well, inexpensive, light rigs. Artificial and canned sounding as compared to a real rig.

As I said far more practical for the casual player, but a poor substitute for the "real deal" for those who take their tone very seriously.

Just my personal opinion of course...

[BassmanPaul]

Originally Posted by nashvillebill

Plugging into the "ext amp" jack on the V4 does NOT cut the signal to the power amp section of the V4.

Correct but, loaded down with the comparatively low input impedance of a typical SS power amp, it will reduce the signal level at that point. I also doubt whether the signal level will be sufficient to actually drive a SS power amp to full potential.

[Mr. Foxen]

Originally Posted by edbass

Hmmm... I never noticed a deficiency in power using this amp;
I guess nobody told Reeves (or any other big power tube amp manufacturers) that "tubes really don't have that much power".
Somebody should clue them in so they stop wasting time on those "inferior" devices and stock up on some transistors so they can offer some powerful amps...

A transistor amp and some form of emulation is no doubt a lot cheaper to buy and easier to store and move; just the ticket for the hobbyist or casual player who likes to play rock star occasionally.
However while the "tube poseur" rigs are continually improving, regretfully those inexpensive, light rigs still pretty much sound like... well, inexpensive, light rigs. Artificial and canned sounding as compared to a real rig.

As I said far more practical for the casual player, but a poor substitute for the "real deal" for those who take their tone very seriously.

Just my personal opinion of course...

Fact is tube amps don't need so much power, they are more efficient due to having a similarly limited bandwidth to most cabs, so they don't chuck out frequencies that function mostly to break speakers. Plus being able to move them shows how much of a man you are without needing lots of 0s to show what a big dong you have.

[VanillaThundah]

You could always get yourself an SVT and NEVER worry about volume again lol

[Sartori]

Originally Posted by Pills Are Yummy

Ampeg V4B through 8x10's...loud enough for metal? Or would i have to run the pre into my 450W SS power amp?

Depends how clean you want it.

Since I don't want it clean when playing metal, through my big 2x15, that would definitely be enough. I normally use a 180 watt tube head, but I'm considering trying out my 100 watt guitar head to see how it fares. It's pretty damn loud even through my 1x15.

Through an 8x10, if you liked a substantial amount of overdrive, I think a V4 would do nicely.

If you want massive sub lows or to be both really loud and have a really clean sound, then no.

[Sartori]

Originally Posted by Pills Are Yummy

I've been getting mixed responses. Most people hear me say 'Metal' and started thinking of Judas Priest and Van Halen. Nope, this is HARD metal. The kind with drummers whose kick and snare make you feel like you're getting punched in the face. Full stack overdriven Marshalls.

Full stack for guitar? Well, then that necessitates either a full stack for bass, or turning down that guitar. When I say full stack, that's two 8x10 cabs.

[Sartori]

Originally Posted by Pills Are Yummy

I currently run an Ampeg SVT 450H into musicman 2x10s. Does the job quite nicely. Could I just run the V4 pre into the 450's power section for a nice SVT 4 sounding rig?

*edit* autocorrect is talkbass's worst enemy

No. A V4 is a tube amp. Therefore it needs to be connected to a speaker load.