10s Verses 15s Again - But A Slightly Different Question This Time (I Hope)

[SurferJoe46]

Specifically if we are to compare a 410 and a vaporware 415 cab - I wonder if anyone can answer this question::::

Is/are the size of the coils and the cones and moving parts in a 15" driver going to need more power to move than a 410?

Assume the Ohms are the same and we have a perfectly calibrated amplifier that puts out X Watts in either situation.

My gut feeling is that the 415s require more energy to make them move as well as the 410s.

Let's leave out the cabinet variables and dampening/acoustics of the wood and the grill cloth here - OK?

[Downunderwonder]

Watts have no meaning by themselves, it's all the other variables that you left out that determine output. Sure 15's use more power but they move more air at the same time. If your question is about the intrinsic efficiency of vaporware, ask a different question.

[T-Bird]

Hi.

IMLE, it depends on three factors really.
The strenght of the motor, the mass of the moving parts and the resistance these moving parts see.

None of those factors are directly related to cone diameter AFAIK.

I'm sure BFM will be here shortly to give more elaborate answer.

Regards
Sam

[JdoubleH]

Originally Posted by SurferJoe46

...
Is/are the size of the coils and the cones and moving parts in a 15" driver going to need more power to move than a 410?
...

My gut feeling is that the 415s require more energy to make them move as well as the 410s.

By "move" do you mean from a dead stop, or do you mean move the same amount of air (in other words, produce the same sound pressure level)?

[rpsands]

No to this thread.

[Arjank]

Originally Posted by SurferJoe46

My gut feeling is that the 415s require more energy to make them move as well as the 410s.

If you mean " amplifier" energy and the sound pressure level the speaker will generate, then your above statement is not true (when everything stays in " proportion" ).

E.g. when I have two drivers with identical Fs(resonance frequency), identical Qes and they only differ in cone area (and moving mass increases proportionally)then the driver with the larger cone area will have a higher efficiency, thus, requiring less energy to get the same SPL as the smaller driver.
But, when the mass of the cone increases dramatically and the Fs should stay the same, the efficiency drops (and so does the Vas). This is what happens with most of the car-subwoofers, these guys are real watt-hungry.

[Sartori]

The 4x15 might require more energy... but it moves more air than the 4x10. Given similar specs in other areas, it's going to be louder.

[billfitzmaurice]

Originally Posted by SurferJoe46

Is/are the size of the coils and the cones and moving parts in a 15" driver going to need more power to move than a 410?

No.

[NKUSigEp]

Originally Posted by Downunderwonder

Watts have no meaning by themselves, it's all the other variables that you left out that determine output. Sure 15's use more power but they move more air at the same time. If your question is about the intrinsic efficiency of vaporware, ask a different question.

It sounds like the OP only wants to address the issue of inertia and getting the woofers to woof. It doesn't sound like he's asking about volume and air displacement.

So yeah, 15's would require more work (and thusly power) since they are larger and have more mass...assuming they are made of the same materials as the 10's.

[Arjank]

Originally Posted by NKUSigEp

So yeah, 15's would require more work (and thusly power) since they are larger and have more mass...assuming they are made of the same materials as the 10's.

If you mean amp power the answer is no

[SurferJoe46]

Well, I can see there are some considerations of which I never thought. NKUSigEp makes my point for me in that I was really interested in just the power consumption/requirements of the drivers and not much of anything else.

The MASS of the 15s verses the 10s is where I was going and trying to leave a lot of the other variables out - but I see a lot of other very interesting things are going on at the same time.

In a vacuum, I guess then it takes more energy going INTO the 15s to actually accelerate and reverse the direction of travel since the cones and other parts are just plain larger or more massive.

Then I also feel by extension, that if a single frequency - a CLEAN frequency if you will - was the baseline testing input, I can see that the 10s would use less power to move then than the 15s. That was my supposition in the first place.

I can also see that there is no formulaic corollary that can be used here to imply speaker efficiency in the area in which I was thinking.

This appears to not be a Rosetta Stone for drivers in the 10s v 15s arena.

Thanks for all the pointers and information.

[NKUSigEp]

Originally Posted by Arjank

If you mean amp power the answer is no

I was making a statement, not asking a question.

[Arjank]

Originally Posted by NKUSigEp

I was making a statement, not asking a question.

I know.
My point was to show that if you mean amplifier power, that your statement " 15's would require more work (and thusly power)" is false.

[B-string]

In a practical sense, no. There may be a measurable difference IF you could use sensitive enough equipment, but the point would be???

[NKUSigEp]

Originally Posted by Arjank

I know.
My point was to show that if you mean amplifier power, that your statement " 15's would require more work (and thusly power)" is false.

Explain please.

[mbelue]

A question such as this could only be answerable in a world with a standardized coil size/cone area ratio. Nearly every manufacturer's ratio is different. Not to mention each different model of each manufacturer. Ergo, each analogy( regardless of its psuedo-science references ) is just as true or valid as every other explanation.

[rpsands]

The question is "Take more power to do What?"

To achieve the same SPL? No. The 15s will be more sensitive all things being equal.

And that's really the only valid question I can think of here :P

[rummy]

Originally Posted by rpsands

No to this thread.

+1

[Arjank]

Originally Posted by NKUSigEp

Explain please.

See post #6

[NKUSigEp]

Originally Posted by Arjank

See post #6

Well, I know we like to get all technically gaga over speaker size and volume and power and all that fun stuff here on Talkbass. But my translation of the OP is that he was simply asking: "In order to move an object of larger mass, will more power be required?" And the answer to that, here on Earth, is yes. End of story.