115 or 210? Opinions, Please.....

[BayStateBass]

I've pretty much made up my mind on my next amp, I've decided to try out one of the Carvin Microbass amps. I've looked at a lot of them, and their prices are great given the options, construction, and features. I have confidence that they are well built and will be reliable.

I also have an ace in the hole, so to speak. My bass guitar teacher told me if I bought one and didn't like it, he'd buy it off me for what I paid (he's a huge Carvin fan, has a lot of their stuff). He recommended Carvin to me and I really trust his opinion.

My question is; I can score the 115 combo or 210 combo at essentially the same price. Both have similar features except the 115 is, well, a 115 with woofer/ titanium tweeter and the 210 is, well, a 210 with woofer/ titanium tweeter.

I'm looking for pros/cons with each setup. I know the 210 is popular.

I'm buying this amp because I have my first upcoming gig in a few weeks, it will be a small venue with no PA and the guitar player is running a 65W Fender, the drummer is only mic'd on the kicker.

Both amps have an output for a cab if needed.

Mostly, I want the most "rounded" amp I can find.

Just looking for some input/suggestions on which you like (210 vs 115) and why.

Thanks!!!!

[BayStateBass]

BTW.... this band is doing blues covers/improvs and some classic rock at small venues, it's a trio. Basically small bars and clubs.

I am buying this week. I tried out and scored the job using only a Squier BP-15 but that thing won't do much other than make some sound in a living room. And crappy sound, at that.

Luckily I don't have to sing.

[cchorney]

I would look at tone first. Then weight size etc. But tone first.

[B-string]

The 210 should give a better dispersion from the stage than the 15". 10" drivers are no where near as thin sounding as they used to be. A good two 10" will sound just as deep but project better than a 115.

[bassguppy]

I could be wrong but the Carvin micro 210 combo has only been on the market a short time so there may not be much real world experience out there.

But, Carvin also has a solid track record with their other micro offerings so I wouldn't worry a great deal if you go the 210 route.

[JimmyM]

I like both 210's and 115's when they sound good, and I don't like either of them when they don't. Size of the speaker is pretty much irrelevant, and it's never the size of the speaker but the tone of the speaker that makes a difference. I realize that doesn't help you any to decide but it's the way it is. Either should do the job for you just fine, though.

[Jawbone]

You really have to try out the two variations to know for sure. Personally, I lean toward larger speakers 12s and 15s. If the Carvin amp has the nads to push the 15 I'd go that route. The 210 will probably be hifi but given the music you're playing the 15 "if" driven correctly will be sweeeet!!

[Plays_For_Dog]

In my experience thus far... the two 10's will sound better within the first 10 feet or so. Even though their combined cone area is 20". However, to me, the 15 will sound better beyond 10 feet. At least the low end retention that you are providing in the band mix.

Sound is subjective. You need to compare both to really make an educated decision. Don't try these amps out right in from of your face and judge them based off that tone. Raise the amp to where it will be on the stage and walk out away from it where the majority of your audience is going to be. Buy which ever carries and sounds the best.

Another note to consider, it has been my experience that when playing with just the 1x15, I have a hard time hearing myself in the mix on stage, but the crowd has always claimed I sound great. With the 2x10 I can hear myself in the mix well, but someone always states they can't hear me. Of course the brand and quality of the combo's can have great effect on the tone and travel characteristics as well.

Bottom line is you have to try them both up close and out where your crowd will be. Based off how they do in your shootout, you can make a common sense, educated decision.

[Downunderwonder]

Assuming there isn't a huge difference in tone when you try them out I would go with the lighter one. Being the young man in the city you're on public transport?

[countbassiedad]

A pair of 1x12's can be a good compromise and gives you the versatility to just bring one to smaller venues.

I use a Markbass 1x12 combo with a 1x12 extension cab.

[ShowKing]

In general I prefer 2x10's. Seems to have more clarity. Personal taste. I used to own a 1x15 and glad I have 2x10 now. I use 2 cabs to make 4x10 for larger gigs.

[basscooker]

whichever is smaller and lighter if the amp is identical and they sound the same. but have that shootout if at all possible. i'd go for either WITH a matching external if possible tho, and trust that it'd be enough for most your needs, too, as long as its up into the 250+ rating for RMS watts. i have never played carvin, but have read about a 50/50 split in reviews about tone, quality, cust svc being good or bad. that's a little low on the good for me. CAN you try it (them) out ?

[Bass Unique]

Originally Posted by Plays_For_Dog

In my experience thus far... the two 10's will sound better within the first 10 feet or so. Even though their combined cone area is 20". However, to me, the 15 will sound better beyond 10 feet. At least the low end retention that you are providing in the band mix.

Two points here:

1) The way a speaker sounds close up and at distance is probably more to do with dispersion. If the sound is dispersed, it will not beam in 1 direction as far. So, a dispersed sound may sound better off axis closer and a beamed sound would sound (louder) better on axis at distance. All depends on the drivers and configuration so there is no hard and fast rule. Also, dispersion would be different if 210 is horizontal (bad) or vertical (good).

2) two 10" speakers do not make a 20"! area of two 10's is typically 20 to 25% smaller than 1 15 (but bigger than a single 12). Make sure you take into account X max of the drivers too as the swept volume equates to bass making potential.

[BayStateBass]

Thanks so much for the advice, people!

Unfortunately, since Carvin sells direct, there are no dealers/distributors for them, so a test-run on each won't be possible unless I hunt down someone who actually has each of these and lets me try them out.

The prices are good, Carvin is getting $350-400 for either of these combos. That fits my budget perfectly. I can't go too much higher, I just don't have the money.

As far as size/weight, both are in the low 30-ish pound range.

The purchase is a safe one, it's already sold (immediately) if I don't like it, so it's basically no-risk on my part. I have nothing to lose, really.

Transporting isn't a real issue. I live in the sticks, the places we'll be playing (right now) are off the beaten path (think Northern Redneck Dive Bars), and I own a pickup truck. So I don't have to worry about taking it on the subway, metro, or a bus. Because I own the truck I get to transport the other amps and drums.

I'm thinking, ultimately, of going with the 210 combo on a 115 extension cab, but starting with the 210. I tend to play a lot in the mid-tones and I need some clarity in the mids and highs because most of the work I'll be doing is walking lines, not just low end thump. I've heard the 210's are usually tighter and have better response, but, again, everyone's opinion is different. And I will need to hear myself, at least a little,on stage because I'm not good enough to trust just my fingers and not my fingers and ears. Make sense?

Anyway, this is all good information, please keep coming with the responses. This site has been a great help already!

[basscooker]

two things i'll mention. i've read on here that mixing driver sizes causes a phasing issue with the tone, especially at higher volumes. search about that i'm not one of the gurus. also driver size apparently has nothing to do with tone, just driver and cabinet design. i play a genz benz 3.0 with 2-1x10t cabs and have not (yet) needed to go to house, or add more to it. i used to play a 300 watt 1x15 with a 2x15 external, and it was way sweet, too, but just plain sucked to transport, regardless of vehicle.ultimately its your call, but plan on an extra cab too.

[cchorney]

Buy both, try them out, return the one you don't like. If you do it at the beginning of your credit card billing cycle, you will only get charged for the one you kept and the shipping on the one you returned (plus restocking fee if they charge one).

[Downunderwonder]

Don't be buying into the "bigger speaker cone = more bottom end, will make my sound more bassy". It's a myth.

My own rig is 2x10 + 15, sounds really good but even better as fully biamped. Biamping isn't any louder than single cab though. I wish I had two of same cab to have full noise and full clarity.

[DigitalMan]

Originally Posted by Downunderwonder

Don't be buying into the "bigger speaker cone = more bottom end, will make my sound more bassy". It's a myth.

...and a matter of frequent controversy around here where one side has won by declaration.

Different frequencies require different energy levels to sound "louder". This changes in a non-linear fashion as overall volumes get louder. Different speaker sizes have different energy output at various frequencies. The sound loudness perceived of the fundamental tones relative to the harmonic content will be greater with larger cones and lesser with smaller cones. That is not to say that a 10" speaker has any trouble producing the fundamental tone. It doesn't. It is simply that the relative perceived volume of fundamental tone to harmonic content will be different, and this difference will be more pronounced as the overall volume increases.

One thing everyone seems to agree upon is that a 1x15 and a 2x10 typically don't sound exactly the same. However, no one seems to agree as to how or why they sound different.

[JoePlaysDaBass]

Grab your bass and head to guitar center. Pick a head, and use that head to play through a few different 115s and 210s. That should help you get an idea on how the different drivers affect the tone you're trying to get.

I used to play through a 210 on top of a 115, and found that they complimented each other quite nicely.

[JHAz]

[quote=DigitalMan;12136908]... The sound loudness perceived of the fundamental tones relative to the harmonic content will be greater with larger cones and lesser with smaller cones. [quote]

Why would that be?