12 inch speakers: Having change of heart??

[trjazzluva05]

Hello TBers....I've been an avid user of 12 inch speakers for the past couple of years, but due to the past two days of playing at a church convention, I'm thinking that 12's aren't the sound for me. They do put out a warmer, fuller low end but they lack the low-mid character that you get from 4x10s. I have an Aguilar GS212 and this is the first time I've had this issue. I'm playing at a convention center in a hotel with no PA support along with my Eden WT-550. Really thinking about going back to playing though tens, Wanted to get some responses and insight from 12 inch speaker users.... And to 4x10 cab users, what's a good sounding, solid, light 4x10. I was think of going Aguilar because I love their gear.

[D.A.R.K.]

use your eq?
the 550 has quite a nice eq...
i would think you could get what you want with that..

[gillento]

I prefer 12" speakers over 10" BECAUSE of the low mid character.

On the other hand I prefer the sound of the db212 over the GS212 I used to play

[JimmyM]

the only thing you can generalize about speaker size alone is you can't generalize. all speakers are different and they can be made to do pretty much anything you want, regardless of size.

[trjazzluva05]

Originally Posted by D.A.R.K.

use your eq?
the 550 has quite a nice eq...
i would think you could get what you want with that..

Yea I can, i usually never have to adjust it my Eden, but I found myself doing a lot more adjusting then I'm used to doing. I figured its the room I'm playing in. The 12s have a fuller low end, which makes them sound really boomy when low end is added to them.

[jnewmark]

I started out using 15's ( JBL's ), then tried 12's and 10's in various cab configurations, and now I'm back to using 15's again. Maybe it's the cabs, maybe it's the bass, etc., but 15's have always sounded better to me than any other size, especially JBL K140's.

[arjune]

Aguilar wouldn't be the first thing that comes to mind when I think of a light-weight 410.

Also, it might just be your GS cab that's the problem. They are more mid-scooped and heavy on the lows than their DB brothers.

[4Mal]

What you don't actually like is the scooped nature of the Aguillar GS cab ... those cab's have the bedroom tone thing down - which means they are going to be fussy live. A more neutral cab won't sound as sweet at low volume in small spaces but it's way easier to dial in your sound live with one ... and in your practice area, you can always dial in a scoop ...

[4Mal]

Originally Posted by jnewmark

I started out using 15's ( JBL's ), then tried 12's and 10's in various cab configurations, and now I'm back to using 15's again. Maybe it's the cabs, maybe it's the bass, etc., but 15's have always sounded better to me than any other size, especially JBL K140's.

I used to be a D/E/K 140 fan. Try the 3015 next time you get a chance. It's a little more 'peaky' in the hi end and it can go a lot lower. Overall it's about as close to a 140 as anything I've heard made today. Really a nice 15. Well worth the audition for someone addicted to the old school JBL or EV 15 sound.

[MysticMichael]

Originally Posted by trjazzluva05

I've been an avid user of 12 inch speakers for the past couple of years, but due to the past two days of playing at a church convention, I'm thinking that 12's aren't the sound for me. They do put out a warmer, fuller low end but they lack the low-mid character that you get from 4x10s. I have an Aguilar GS212 and this is the first time I've had this issue.

I really don't see how you can generalize across all makes & models of cabs, based on your limited experience alone. The Aguilar GS series in particular is widely regarded as being a bit mids-shy, at least when run flat, with no EQ.

MM

[jnewmark]

Originally Posted by 4Mal

I used to be a D/E/K 140 fan. Try the 3015 next time you get a chance. It's a little more 'peaky' in the hi end and it can go a lot lower. Overall it's about as close to a 140 as anything I've heard made today. Really a nice 15. Well worth the audition for someone addicted to the old school JBL or EV 15 sound.

I actually did try a 3015 in the Carvin LS1503 cab. Overall, I did'nt hear much difference in it from the stock speaker, so I sold it. I would like to try it alone,or with just a tweeter, in the right cab. So far, nothing has come close to the clarity of a K140, imho, of course.

[Rick Auricchio]

A lot of the issue is due to the room. Every speaker will suffer if the room acoustics fight it. That's where EQ comes in.

[Jaco who?]

http://www.aguilaramp.com/products_cabinets_db212.htm

Try that one.

[PhilBassOW5]

I had a Fender Bassman 50 top and the smaller 2x15" which I bought for £95 in the 80's. I got some Fender signature D140s with the orange backs from Paul McCallum at Wembley Loudspeakers who re-coned them for me. The set-up sounded awesome. When I sold the setup (a big mistake) I put the Eminence speakers back and put the JBLs in a series of cabinets ending in an A.S.S. cabinet. They used to make cans for John Entwistle's. 15s are the best 'pure' bass speaker. 10's and 12's resonate too high when used on their own really, particularly for a 5 string. Clever cabinet porting can help. My old Euphonic NL210 which is transmission line went down very low and was a very clever cabinet design.
You might be having problems with the room trjazzluva05. Are you actually playing in a church? Unfortunately, the room is the one variable we can't control. We need something that alters the room acoustic! Actually lots of people in the house makes a great difference along with some soft surfaces to soak up reflections. I would take this as a one off and get on with enjoying your playing. I did play in a basement once that was a wine Cellar. It had a horrible resonance at about 90hz. Once i'd rolled that out my bass sounded so unsatisfying it felt like the longest Gig ever! Sometimes you just have to shrug your shoulders and get on with it.

All the best,

Phil.

[shoot-r]

[quote=trjazzluva05;9354425]Hello TBers....I've been an avid user of 12 inch speakers for the past couple of years, but due to the past two days of playing at a church convention, I'm thinking that 12's aren't the sound for me. They do put out a warmer, fuller low end but they lack the low-mid character that you get from 4x10s. Really thinking about going back to playing though tens,

Same here...
I was using 12's also.
IMHO, 12's gave the band I'm working with a great low-end pillow, but I couldn't get the clarity/cut/speed I was craving on a busy stage.
I went to two 210 cabinets stacked as a vertical 410 as recommended to me by BillF here at the T.B. forum.
Problems solved!

[cb56]

Funny how many compliments I get on the tone of my rig. LMII and two GS112s. and none of those people were standing in my bedroom at the time.
Had a fellow talkbasser recently come up to me after a church gig and said "your bass sounded great in the mix today, funny because I know those Aguilar cabs are mid scooped".
Just for grins while I was playing the other day I turned my bass and treble controls on my amp all the way down, and the lo/mid hi/mid all the way up. You wouldn't believe how middy and boxy those mid scooped aguilar cabs sounded.

[billfitzmaurice]

Originally Posted by trjazzluva05

Hello TBers....I've been an avid user of 12 inch speakers for the past couple of years, but due to the past two days of playing at a church convention, I'm thinking that 12's aren't the sound for me. They do put out a warmer, fuller low end .

The only difference between 10s, 12s and 15s purely attributable to cone size is midrange dispersion, and even that is as much dependent on how the drivers are arranged in the cab as it is by driver size. Any and all differences between how different cabs sound is the sum of all the parts, not just driver size. So if you rule out a cab without trying it based on driver size you may be missing out on what you're really looking for.

[marc40a]

Originally Posted by trjazzluva05

Hello TBers....I've been an avid user of 12 inch speakers for the past couple of years, but due to the past two days of playing at a church convention, I'm thinking that 12's aren't the sound for me. They do put out a warmer, fuller low end but they lack the low-mid character that you get from 4x10s. I have an Aguilar GS212 and this is the first time I've had this issue. I'm playing at a convention center in a hotel with no PA support along with my Eden WT-550. Really thinking about going back to playing though tens, Wanted to get some responses and insight from 12 inch speaker users.... And to 4x10 cab users, what's a good sounding, solid, light 4x10. I was think of going Aguilar because I love their gear.

I'm in the same boat. I'm currently auditioning a pair of GK NEO-II's.

The jury is still out. My first gig with them leaves me w/ mixed feelings but there were some variables involved (namely a different brand of strings from what I usually use and I was not digging them at all) so I can't make a conclusive decision just yet.

Tonight, I'm going to give them a run through in a very familiar room with my main bass.

My general feeling at this point is that the drivers are great but the box is too damn big. I play 5 string but have very little need or desire for true low end... I leave that to the Subs in the FOH. For my rig I want reasonable balance from 50hz up, lightning quick response, detailed borderline/agressive upper mids and a horn than is engaged but non obrtusive... I don't any of that electric buzzer sound from the run of the mill horns that most mid range brands use though the crossover is probably 90% of that equation.

That and a small footprint on stage.

I used a Schroeder 15+L recently and totally dug the sound of that cab but my demands are more than that single speaker can handle. I blew it. I'm not so sure a pair is justified cost wise. I feel like I can get more for my $. That's true of a lot of brands that I'd like to try.

I may very well go the custom route or towards something like a Bag End if this GK audition doesn't work out. The concept of a larger speaker in a small box with a coaxial sounds very appealing. Maybe a S-15x with a S-12 on top. I know I can depend on ceramic for heavy gigging. Perhaps I'll go back to 10's but ideally I'd like 3 or 4 drivers in a vertical arrangment. I haven't seeen any candidates that jump out at me.

[marc40a]

Oh..did I mention that I'd like to stay away from rat fur covered cabs as well?

I know... I'm way too picky but after a 10+ years of consistent gigging, I have a very specific idea of what I need and want.

[JimmyM]

well, i see nobody's listening to the good sense answers. good job!