12s and 15s.

[powellmacaque]

I'm thinking about getting a larger rig to suit my punk band. I'm leaning towards either 12s, 15s, or a combination of the two. I know that every cab is different, but I'm probably going with Gallien-Krueger products to match whatever head I get (700rb, 800rb, or Fusion 550). I have a hard hitting drummer (VERY hard hitting) and I will be competing with a Marshall MA100 and a Peavey Valveking 100.

Would the best option be:

2 x 1x12 cabs
2 x 2x12 cabs
1 x 4x12 cab
1 x 1x12, 1 x 1x15 combination
1 x 2x12, 1 x 1x15 combination
2 x 1x15 cabs

I know 2x10s work well with 15s, but what's the rule of thumb with 12s and 15s? I don't really care if you heard your cousin's band one time in 1997 with this 12 and 15 set up and it was killer, I want to know what is most likely to work most of the time.

I do like the sound of 15s over the sound of 10s, but I haven't gotten to play 12s in a bass setting. The 15s just add a warmth and some muddiness (that I like). Tens are just too brittle sounding to me.

Thanks in advance.

[JimmyM]

some people like their mixed rigs, but matching cabs always produces good results whereas mixing leads to unpredictable results. some are great, some flat out suck. but it's unpredictable.

and the size of the speaker is immaterial. find a cab you like and get two and pay no attention to speaker size.

[rpsands]

The GK 4x12 is golden. That's how I would roll if I had to pick GK and was up against two 100 watt halfstacks and a loud drummer.

[Laurent]

Here is how I look at it. If I had only one cab, I would make it a 12. If I can have two sizes of speakers I like 10 and 15's they feel different to me and I like combining a 210 or a 410 with a 15. Most people in the know say it's a bad idea but if great bass players like John Paul Jones do it, I feel pretty confident doing it as well! At the end of the day do what works for you.

[Stumbo]

With a bi-amp setup, how about 2x10 (top) for the high end and 2x15 vertically stacked?

Here's a TB review of the 800rb (100w high end). http://www.talkbass.com/reviews/show...hp?product=260

Or how about a fEarful 1x6-1x15 and bi-amp it.

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by Laurent

Here is how I look at it. If I had only one cab, I would make it a 12. If I can have two sizes of speakers I like 10 and 15's they feel different to me and I like combining a 210 or a 410 with a 15. Most people in the know say it's a bad idea but if great bass players like John Paul Jones do it, I feel pretty confident doing it as well! At the end of the day do what works for you.

jpj uses separate amps for each. makes mixing a lot easier to deal with.

[rpsands]

Generalizing about speaker cabinet tone based on size of the speaker is seriously a waste of time.

Sensitivity and displacement, yes, tone, no. You can generally expect a quality 2x12 to be of similar sensitivity and max displacement to a similar quality 4x10, for example. At least in the same ballpark. But the tone...there is no generalizing.

You would be lucky to find two 4x10s of different brands that sounded similar. There're so many variables in play it's far less likely than people think.

[Sartori]

The best and loudest answer (which is why it's the best) is two 2x15"s.

Obviously.

[ljazz]

I run the 700rbII with the 112 and 212, and it blows off heads! The 412 has got to be killer!

[Laurent]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

jpj uses separate amps for each. makes mixing a lot easier to deal with.

I do as well; it's the only good way to deal with various sensitivity on the cabs. I have a cab that is rated 103db and another one rated 98db so the 103 db cab overshadows the 98 db one when amped together.

[GrowlerBox]

There has got to be some sort of page that you have to pass through before being able to post on the Amps board that says something like:

"If you are planning to ask a completely non-specific question regarding the differences between speaker sizes, DON'T"

and then perhaps offer some distillation of the oft-repeated, factual information that has been provided ad nauseum by BFM, greenboy, Duke, Jimmy, Sundogue, Passinwind, rpsands, KJung etc (I know there are more, and sorry if I haven't named you, you know who you are!).

It makes far more sense to provide a list of considered models and/or specifications and/or requirements, and then just watch the well-considered and informative responses roll in.

End of rant.

[billfitzmaurice]

Originally Posted by GrowlerBox

There has got to be some sort of page that you have to pass through before being able to post on the Amps board that says something like:

"If you are planning to ask a completely non-specific question regarding the differences between speaker sizes, DON'T"

and then perhaps offer some distillation of the oft-repeated, factual information that has been provided ad nauseum by BFM, greenboy, Duke, Jimmy, Sundogue, Passinwind, rpsands, KJung etc (I know there are more, and sorry if I haven't named you, you know who you are!).

It makes far more sense to provide a list of considered models and/or specifications and/or requirements, and then just watch the well-considered and informative responses roll in.

End of rant.

Want a thread to be universally ignored? Label it 'Answers to Frequently Asked Questions'.

[GrowlerBox]

Originally Posted by billfitzmaurice

Want a thread to be universally ignored? Label it 'Answers to Frequently Asked Questions'.

Hence the "page you have to pass through" requirement.

[tlr1293]

Originally Posted by billfitzmaurice

Want a thread to be universally ignored? Label it 'Answers to Frequently Asked Questions'.

... would kill for some organization and specific information around here.


With the utmost respect for all those that point to the stickies...
...they are full of links that just perpetuate arguments over what works and does not work. For every person that something works - there is another debunking that. THIS thread could be linked in those sticky threads and everyone would point to the stickies as pure information on what does and does not work.

I have read through those stickies, and followed the internal links - to little avail. Excellent discussions that lead nowhere actually, but certainly something to eat up my lunch hour.

[gary mitchell]

I use a SWR WorkingPro 700, with a Schroeder 310212,at first I didnt it like but found my amp had a problem. I got it fix and I just love the sound I get now. I was playing a Aguilar GS 210 great cab, but with a Peavey Lowrider 18 in a Carvin cab. The rig was loud and the people in the back row was getting a beating, couldnt here that well on stage. To me the 18 sounded like I was pounding mud. I like 15s and 210s together better. But my 310212 clean sounds more musical to me, its rated at 2100 watts and its a 95 pound cab. If I didnt have it, I am sort of old school I would go 810s. You have to please your own ears and dont listen to a guitar player.

[Dr. Eagle]

I have several different rigs. One of them is a SWR Silverado Special with 2x12 speakers and about 400 watts. I LOVE the sound of the 12s, they are bright without being brittle and have more than enough bottom end. I use that one in clubs.
Personally I would like to get a new set of 2 2x12 cabinets. I am with you on the 10 inch speakers, I have never liked them even though I do have a 4x10 cabinet that I use rarely with a 1x18 Neo speaker.

[Munjibunga]

I'd get two 212s if you aren't considering 10s. Then you can take one or both, depending on the gig. Otherwise, I'd get a 410 and a 210 for the option of taking two, four or six 10s.

[GrowlerBox]

Originally Posted by tlr1293

I have read through those stickies, and followed the internal links - to little avail. Excellent discussions that lead nowhere actually, but certainly something to eat up my lunch hour.

I agree with you to an extent on those stickies -- I think the mods have done a good job of collating them into some semblance of order, at least. My guess is that they want to avoid editorialising too much and so do not pick the wheat from the chaff, so to speak. Unfortunately, some of the best material is buried in threads with inauspicious beginnings, so can be hard to find.

My (albeit tongue in cheek) suggestion was precisely not for direction towards one of the FAQ/sticky threads, but for a distilled and edited version of what can unashamedly be referred to as "facts". Lots of what is discussed here is indeed a matter of opinion, taste and personal experience, and should be given its due. A certain, clearly-defined subset of this is a matter of acoustic science in its broadest sense, however, and is not really a matter for debate, at least at the level largely conducted here. I should add that I, for one, could not possibly participate meaningfully in a conversation at the esoteric level at which things do become debatable. My point is that everyone's "tonal goals" are, and should be, their own, but the means of achieving them, or at least a workable compromise between them and reality , is a matter of engineering and the application of well-understood physical principles.

On the other hand, it is a chat room....

[Groove Doctor]

+1 for matching cabs (all the same speaker size).

I love 15"s too (I'd buy two 1x15" cabs as a 2x15" cab is much too hard to carry up/ down stairs by yourself).
I'm not a fan of the sound of 10's (despite what anyone else says) but you can hear them clearly up close on a small/ loud stage.

I gig with one 2x12" cab as I mostly play quiet-medium gigs +/- IEM's. I'd LOVE to gig with two 2x12" cabs for fullness/girth if I was doing loud gigs again. You can stack the two cabs vertically (four 12"s in a row vertically) to get great clarity up close and dispersion throughout the room.

Cabinet size must match the specific speaker. Look into sealed vs ported cabs, front port vs rear port, etc. Cabs also have to suit the rooms you'll be playing in.

Tweeters are also important - I prefer a dual concentric tweeter or a silk dome tweeter (not harsh sounding) with attenuator.

Trial and error, plus trusting your ears - that will help you more than anything.