15" speaker frequency response?

[Electricblue]

Ok, I looked at some 15" drivers from eminence.

I know they are supposed to sound deep, but most of them state their lowest frequency response is in the 50hz region?

[PSPookie]

Try here: Speaker Detail | Eminence Speaker

Also see discussions in this forum regarding the necessity of reproducing the fundamental frequency.

[Electricblue]

Originally Posted by PSPookie

Try here: Speaker Detail | Eminence Speaker

Also see discussions in this forum regarding the necessity of reproducing the fundamental frequency.

Don't most people want the fundemental?

[MuzikMan]

50hz does sound deep with electric bass. Experiment with a sine wave generator and you will be surprised by the result. To me anything under 60hz is deep bass.

[MuzikMan]

Originally Posted by Electricblue

Don't most people want the fundemental?

As you move down the scale of a typical electric bass the second harmonic becomes more dominant than the fundamental. In the case of a low B the 62hz harmonic feels like the fundamental. This is strictly electric bass talk. I would imagine that longer scale acoustic basses do a better job with the fundamental.

[PSPookie]

Originally Posted by MuzikMan

50hz does sound deep with electric bass. Experiment with a sine wave generator and you will be surprised by the result. To me anything under 60hz is deep bass.

Yup. 40Hz is barely audible -- you feel it as a pressure in your ears more than you hear it.

It has much to do with human physiology and psychoacoustics but, basically, your brain takes the harmonic series for the note in question and extrapolates the missing/underpowered fundamental frequency. ie. you "hear" the fundamental even if it is not reproduced at the same intensity as teh rest of the harmonic series.

[Electricblue]

Surely you want to be felt as much as heard though?

I mean thats what puts the fun in fundamental!

Im so clever.

[MuzikMan]

50hz is plenty of "feel" for the stage IMO. If you want to move the earth you are better off investing in some good small scale PA equipment (this is what I have done).

[knuckle_head]

Originally Posted by PSPookie

Yup. 40Hz is barely audible -- you feel it as a pressure in your ears more than you hear it.

40 Hz is more than discernible as a pitch to the human ear - virtually no bass cabs present it.

[Russell L]

I have rolled off 50Hz to 0 before on a slider and just played from 100Hz up and never missed the 50Hz. 100Hz is punchy.

[PSPookie]

Originally Posted by knuckle_head

40 Hz is more than discernible as a pitch to the human ear - virtually no bass cabs present it.

My previous statement is based on my personal experiences and impressions using cabs that at least claim to extend that low.

[BurningSkies]

You're right . Most speakers don't go very low...But when you're looking at freq curves, most aren't showing them in a properly designed box either. That changes things.

[JimmyM]

electric, it's a pretty deep subject with opinions on different sides about the fundamental, but a couple quick facts are:

---fundamental down below 50hz, while desirable for some, is not all that necessary to get a big fat low end.

---the porting of a cab has as much or more to do with how much low end a cab puts out as the fundamental a given speaker produces.

---the idea that a larger speaker will always have more low end than a smaller speaker is called "engineering by looks." one of the very lowest fundamental-producing cabs out there, the ampeg svt 410 hlf, is made with four 10" speakers. so you can't judge what a cab will do or sound like based on speaker size alone.

[Electricblue]

so when you turn the tone knob down on the guitar, do you basically roll off everything until it gets to only the fundemental?

[Electricblue]

So 15" instead of 10" doesnt mean a more rumbly low end? (diahorrea reference there)

Do people say that 10's sound weedy just because you need more of them?

Im stuck between a 410 or 2 x 115 at the moment.

I would prefer a 410 for output and sensitivity, but then again I love a warm, round tone.

I would be running 600w head with 500w worth of cabs. I dont like the thought of that

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by Electricblue

So 15" instead of 10" doesnt mean a more rumbly low end? (diahorrea reference there)

Do people say that 10's sound weedy just because you need more of them?

Im stuck between a 410 or 2 x 115 at the moment.

I would prefer a 410 for output and sensitivity, but then again I love a warm, round tone.

I would be running 600w head with 500w worth of cabs. I dont like the thought of that

1. not necessarily. it's all in the design of the cab.

2. i have no idea why people say 10"s sound "weedy."

4. as long as you keep your volume down below what the cab can take, you're fine. but there are high and low output cabs using all sizes of speakers. but the lower it goes, the more power it will take to be as loud as a cab that doesn't go as low...takes a goodly amount of power to amplify lows.

[dhomer]

Originally Posted by Electricblue

Surely you want to be felt as much as heard though?

I mean thats what puts the fun in fundamental!

Im so clever.

Been there, done that with disastrous results. I had an 18" sub w/an f3 of 28Hz.. and I play a fiver... The subsonic was so bad, it was bleeding in all the stage mics and made it nearly impossible to dial in the PA. The only way this worked at all was to insert a 35Hz HPF in the signal chain. What I would shoot for in modeling drivers is a flat response between 60-100 Hz. This will insure the first (audible) harmonic is reproduced evenly..

[Electricblue]

Is it therefore possible to achieve a nice warm, deep sound with a 410? Specifically an Ashdown Mag410?

[mikezimmerman]

Originally Posted by Electricblue

so when you turn the tone knob down on the guitar, do you basically roll off everything until it gets to only the fundemental?

No, what you do is roll off everything above a particular specific frequency, which is almost certainly much higher than the fundamental of most of the notes you'll be playing.

[billfitzmaurice]

Originally Posted by Electricblue

Don't most people want the fundemental?

No. Read the thread again. A third or fourth time if necessary to understand what it says. Electric bass is all about harmonics.

So 15" instead of 10" doesnt mean a more rumbly low end? (diahorrea reference there)

Do people say that 10's sound weedy just because you need more of them?

I would prefer a 410 for output and sensitivity, but then again I love a warm, round tone.

None of those conclusions have any basis in fact. Driver size alone has no relationship with tone.