18" speakers - did the old drivers work better for bass back in the old days?

throbbinnut · #1 11-30-2010, 06:14 PM

Ok, so I find myself wanting a big fat 1x18 cab all the time, even though any time I've tried one in the last 20 years, they've never sounded right. The reason I want one is because my first huge cab that actually made my V4B loud enough to compete with (3) 50-Watt half-stacks back in 1989 was a Distex folded-horn 1x18 "sugar scoop" cab. 4' tall x 2' wide x 2' deep. Since the speaker was facing front and up at the top of the cab, I actually got mids and even some clanky highs if I remember correctly. The driver was just a Pyle 18.

So my question is whether anybody even makes an 18" driver anymore that isn't a subwoofer? Is that even what was going on? My guess is that the Pyle 18" was actually a pretty crappy sub by today's standards, but it ended up being perfect for bass when stuck in a huge cabinet.

Any ideas?

Thanks,
Chris

seamonkey · #2 11-30-2010, 06:24 PM

I suspect you're not remembering right.

Mr. Foxen · #3 11-30-2010, 06:37 PM

Shouldn't be too hard to find an old 18" driver, thing is, there aren't any new ones because you can achieve the same thing loads better with smaller drivers. I was recommended an Eminence Omega for my W horn cab.

fu22ba55 · #4 11-30-2010, 06:40 PM

I've had lots of good luck with Peavey Black Widows. They used to make a 1x18 & 2x10 cab that sounded great, and I've used 1x18 Peavey PA subs loaded with BWs, and they sounded great all by themselves (not crossed as subs).

^^^ 2x15s and 2x18s ^^^

I don't care what the haters say, I think 18"s are great as long as you know what you're getting yourself into, and you don't mind schlepping them around. (And the box they're loaded in has to be nice and big.)

I'm so used to 18"s now that 15"s sound too bright to me.

babebambi · #5 11-30-2010, 07:13 PM

CDweller · #6 11-30-2010, 07:28 PM

There are some amazing designs out there these days- fEarfuls, Barefaced cabs, Bill Fitzmaurice's stuff, and some others. They sound utterly amazing. That being said...

Even though the modern stuff is awesome, one's subjective experience of the 18's sounding good to the ear is valid. Yeah, it's a good sound, to my not too sophisticated ear. Simple as that. If you dig that tone, it's your thing, and it sounds good.

billfitzmaurice · #7 11-30-2010, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by throbbinnut

my first huge cab that actually made my V4B loud enough to compete with (3) 50-Watt half-stacks back in 1989 was a Distex folded-horn 1x18 "sugar scoop" cab. 4' tall x 2' wide x 2' deep.

It wasn't the driver size, it was the cab. Today's drivers are vastly better, but if you put them in a low sensitivity cab it will sound like a low sensitivity cab. Louder, yes, because today's drivers cab take a lot more power and amps have the power to give, but if you like the sound of a high sensitivity cab you need to use a high sensitivity cab.

greenboy · #8 11-30-2010, 08:34 PM

For people who like the full-range 18" sound, the 3015LF in a fEarful 15sub plan delivers the low end in spades. Just leave the lowpass filter out. This will deliver more per watt than probably any of the 18" drivers you would be looking at, and goes lower in the same box size, and can handle more too.

zon6c-f · #9 11-30-2010, 08:46 PM

Stay "Old School" and use a Cerwin-Vega 18", or JBL 18". I am not doubting the claims from above posts, but I don't see or know anyone who owns these newer designs. Try an Acoustic 301 [ 1-18" folded w-horn] or a Sunn 1-18VH, which is a unique folded horn, not at all a "w-horn". Heavy..yes. Loud, deep , clean and clear..YES. Can take the watts??...YES. I have no loss of highs and I can hear myself on stage with my Sunn 1-18vh. The audience can hear it half a mile away..never turned my Acoustic 370 volume above 2.5. Again...nothing against the above posts, I just prefer to "dance with the one who brought me to the dance". I prefer "muscle cars" over "rice rockets", too, though. Just my 2 cents. Thanks...zon6c-f.

throbbinnut · #10 11-30-2010, 10:29 PM

Thanks for the input, dudes. I think Bill is right that it must be the sound of high-efficiency cabinets that I love - not necessarily the 18" speaker that my first high-efficiency cab had in it. I'll just have to start working out so I can drag my old V4-B 2x15 folded horn to gigs...

Rock,
Chris

robgrow · #11 11-30-2010, 10:48 PM

The original bass player for the Lemon Pipers (which was then a local rock band here in Cincinnati) used two Ampeg B-18's for awhile. Sounded awesome for the time. I owned a couple of Acoustic 360's as well as a 370 that I really liked (they all used Cerwin Vega 18's). I also owned a cab with a CV 18 in a direct radiator configuration (not front horn loaded), which sounded pretty darn good. I played through the Peavey 1-18 x 2-10 cabs several times, and always thought they did a good job. Although 18's were cool back in the 60's, 70's and 80's, I'm not sure I'd want to go back to them now.

vistacruiser · #12 11-30-2010, 11:49 PM

+3 on the Cerwin Vega 18.
I used to play my GK 800rb thru a cab with a front loaded 18 and 2-10's. The 18 was 8 ohm so you could play in parallel with the 10's. I needed a quick fix on the 18 once and since I always bi-amped, I swapped in a 4 ohm Vega. Night and day difference, it sounds sooo good!

dbase · #13 12-01-2010, 04:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fu22ba55

I've had lots of good luck with Peavey Black Widows. They used to make a 1x18 & 2x10 cab that sounded great, and I've used 1x18 Peavey PA subs loaded with BWs, and they sounded great all by themselves (not crossed as subs).

^^^ 2x15s and 2x18s ^^^

I don't care what the haters say, I think 18"s are great as long as you know what you're getting yourself into, and you don't mind schlepping them around. (And the box they're loaded in has to be nice and big.)

I'm so used to 18"s now that 15"s sound too bright to me.

Thats a sweet rig...

tdvt · #14 12-01-2010, 06:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greenboy

For people who like the full-range 18 Just leave the lowpass filter out.

Not to go to far off-topic, but I have a fE 15sub in the works.

For those of us less than fluent with crossover-tech, would that mean keep the 30uF cap & delete the 3mH inductor?

fu22ba55 · #15 12-01-2010, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greenboy

For people who like the full-range 18" sound, the 3015LF in a fEarful 15sub plan delivers the low end in spades..

Greenboy, I might just have to take you up on that. I wasn't aware of the 15sub. I've only seen the fE 15/6 popping up everywhere.

I'm kind of afraid it will be too clean for my tastes, though... BFM mentions "low sensitivity" cabs above, and I gather from his other posts that part of what I like about the sound I get is pushing speakers past xMax (whatever the hell that means). Those crap Peaveys above were only rated at 200W each. The 3015LFs are rated at 450W. So I'm afraid the 15sub will give me clean low end. I'm only using an SVT, so 300/4 is only 75W per driver.

I imagine the 15sub sounds more like a PA sub, while the Peavey's above acted more like guitar cabs? (Breaking up early with not too many watts.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by dbase

Thats a sweet rig...

Thx man. Wish I still had it. Those 18"s are long gone. And yes, they were a royal pain to move. But that setup was simply the best sounding rig I've ever played through in 27 years.

rpsands · #16 12-01-2010, 08:50 AM

You could make yourself a head case with a couple 10" guitar drivers -- I imagine the crossover math with a tube head would be complicated, but maybe someone could throw out some ideas. something like a 6db/octave high pass @ 200hz seems like a good idea, but I don't know what it'd do with impedance curves and all that.

greenboy · #17 12-01-2010, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tdvt

Not to go to far off-topic, but I have a fE 15sub in the works.

For those of us less than fluent with crossover-tech, would that mean keep the 30uF cap & delete the 3mH inductor?

Delete both.

...Actually in the context of a rig with a bright 210 with horn, I like the sound of the 15sub with the lowpass/crossover left in better.

greenboy · #18 12-01-2010, 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fu22ba55

I'm kind of afraid it will be too clean for my tastes, though...

Dunno. With another cab in the stack that's more breakup-oriented you might actually find that it's really a great composite.

mowburger · #19 12-01-2010, 09:07 AM

I use one of those cheap as hell NADY 118 sub cabs along with my GK sbx410+ at bigger gigs, but just recently tried the 18" out by itself at some smaller open jams, it's response is a claimed 20-400hz wow perfect fundamental response for my bass, not missing the high end out of my rig in these situations, of course no way would it keep up with two Marshall 4x12's on a bigger stage but when coupled with the 410 WOW it sure lays down a blanket of low, oh yeah it's soooooo light for an 18" cab. p.s. on a side note at rehearsal the crossover in the nady got hot and actually melted off the circuit board, I completly removed the X-over, a lil more output is the result, not afraid of blowing it up as it was obtained at mr. money (pawn shop) for less than $100. I would tryout (if you can) a bunch of subwoofers, even the cheaper ones, you may be surprised.

rpsands · #20 12-01-2010, 09:23 AM

Another option that might be safer would be to just use a fEarful sub with the SVT, and use a crossover pedal and a guitar combo on top.

You can get a nice 1x12 tube guitar combo for ridiculously cheap these days - ValveKing 112s are amazing sounding and can be had for 200 bucks used. Crate made a nice tube combo too that came down to around 200 bucks.

A crossover pedal with optional distortion on top would be a good way to rock that.