2" shrink?

ThunderousFunk · #1 07-15-2010, 07:56 AM

If the tone of a 4x10 is too boomy for me, should I try 8's? Are 8's that much tighter than 10's?

bassplayer7770 · #2 07-15-2010, 07:59 AM

What 410 are you using? Is it boomy everywhere you go? How is your bass/amp EQed?

Chasarms · #3 07-15-2010, 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThunderousFunk

If the tone of a 4x10 is too boomy for me, should I try 8's? Are 8's that much tighter than 10's?

It could just as easily be the design of the cabinet rather than the drivers. The porting and cabinet volume have a great deal to do with how the overall enclosure sounds.

I've heard 15" cabs that are very punchy.

waleross · #4 07-15-2010, 08:14 AM

You should try to play through an Ampeg 410HLF and other make cabs and configs. Then form your own opinion , by the way there are some bass cabs that have 5" speakers, supposed to be great.......I forget the make.........................

derrico1 · #5 07-15-2010, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chasarms

It could just as easily be the design of the cabinet rather than the drivers. The porting and cabinet volume have a great deal to do with how the overall enclosure sounds.

This. Not all 10" speakers sound alike, and identical speakers can sound dramatically different in two cabs of different designs.

bassplayer7770 · #6 07-15-2010, 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chasarms

It could just as easily be the design of the cabinet rather than the drivers. The porting and cabinet volume have a great deal to do with how the overall enclosure sounds.

I've heard 15" cabs that are very punchy.

There could be other factors contributing to the boomy sound as well.

ThunderousFunk · #7 07-15-2010, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chasarms

I've heard 15" cabs that are very punchy.

Yeah, I had a custom-made 1x15 cab like that that I wish I still had. At the moment, I'm using a Peavey Firebass 700, and a Peavey 410TVX(probably only getting 425watts). I play with a loud drummer, and a singer who plays an acoustic through a single 12" P.A. speaker that he sings through too(plans on going electric, but only to a 50watt combo). I was looking at SWR's Henry the 8x8, but also plan on buying a 5 string too. The place we practice in is like 15x42 with low ceilings(like a storage shed), but the usable practice area in the building is about 10x10(and that may be generous). I'm sure I could turn down the low end(Low-8/9:00, and Low Mids-2/3:00), but it gets too thin sounding. Also, I'm using a Fender MIJ '51P RI(which I know isn't the most diverse basses in tone). I'm just thinking that I need to tighten up the lows alittle.

bassplayer7770 · #8 07-15-2010, 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThunderousFunk

I'm just thinking that I need to tighten up the lows alittle.

I don't have experience with your setup, but here is something that helped tighten up the lows with my setup. I'm using a High Pass Filter at 50Hz on my power amp. I boost the Bass control up a notch on my preamp(s) to sorta offset the HPF a bit, and it still sounds nice and clean, and my 15 doesn't work so hard.

Chasarms · #9 07-15-2010, 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bassplayer7770

There could be other factors contributing to the boomy sound as well.

Agreed. Especially being that "boomy" is a pretty ambiguous word to start with.

Sometimes it can be as simple as the room. Almost any rig can sound boomy in the right mix of conditions. Starting with EQ is great advise. Almost almost, most issues like that can be dealt with with a few tweaks.

ThunderousFunk · #10 07-15-2010, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chasarms

Agreed. Especially being that "boomy" is a pretty ambiguous word to start with.

Well then, lemme try to explain. I have messed with the EQ, and I don't get that great of a tone out of this package anyways. But the way I have it Eq'ed to sound decent, it sounds like cheap ****. When I play something on the D or G string, I do get a nice tone. But when I play the E or the A its boomy. Like in the same way a car audio subwoofer sounds in a car stereo. No tone, just lows. I'm thinking it's the setup, so I will be going to check out other ****. Plus, I think it might be the bass too, since all I have is a Volume, and a Tone knob.

Chasarms · #11 07-15-2010, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThunderousFunk

Well then, lemme try to explain. I have messed with the EQ, and I don't get that great of a tone out of this package anyways. But the way I have it Eq'ed to sound decent, it sounds like cheap ****. When I play something on the D or G string, I do get a nice tone. But when I play the E or the A its boomy. Like in the same way a car audio subwoofer sounds in a car stereo. No tone, just lows. I'm thinking it's the setup, so I will be going to check out other ****. Plus, I think it might be the bass too, since all I have is a Volume, and a Tone knob.

I think we are back to bassplayer7770's original inquiry of how the EQ is set.

Jaco who? · #12 07-15-2010, 10:08 AM

My experience with the Firebass and Nitrobass pre's is that the mid boost knob does pretty much nothing until about 3 O'clock. I have the mid shift anywhere from 400 to 800 hz, depending on the room and how you personally view the worthless unreadable dots between 0 and 1000 hz. The contour knob sucks too, (literally) I leave it off.

I think it's voicing for the mid range goes way lower than what the shift knob is set to, because most of the time I have to cut the bass a little below "flat" to eliminate the boom.

I've also found the 2x12 Avatars reproduce mids better than Avatar 4x10's do, (for example) so you really can't go by speaker diameter.

ThunderousFunk · #13 07-15-2010, 10:11 AM

Did I not just say that I messed with the EQ?

Here is where I have the EQ set.
Input-1to2:00
Contour-7:00
Low-8to9:00
Mid-1to2:00
MidShift-8-9:00
Highs-12to1:00
Master-2to3:00

Magnus Scott · #14 07-15-2010, 10:21 AM

"by the way there are some bass cabs that have 5" speakers"

Phil Jones Bass

www.philjonespuresound.com

PSPookie · #15 07-15-2010, 10:22 AM

That particular cab probably has more to do with your sonic woes than the driver size.

Ther are tons of punchy, not boomy 4x10s out there.

Randall · #16 07-15-2010, 10:28 AM

Are there really many 8" bass speakers out there?.

Rick Auricchio · #17 07-15-2010, 10:28 AM

The question was asked: Does it happen in all rooms?

Room acoustics play a huge part in what you hear, as does your position near the cabinet.

Does it sound boomy out in the room? You can't judge it from four feet away.

Rick Auricchio · #18 07-15-2010, 10:33 AM

You assume that driver size makes a big difference in tone, when it's mostly the cabinet and room.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThunderousFunk

Yeah, I had a custom-made 1x15 cab like that that I wish I still had.

Since you liked the 15, what made you think the 10s were the culprit? If you were right, you'd hate the 15 even more than the 10s.

The original question should have been "Why is my tone boomy?" instead of asking about 8" speakers. State your problem and you'll get solutions. If you start with what you think should be done, you'll end up on a wild-goose chase.

I learned years ago to ask "What problem are you trying to solve?" It works wonders to clear the air when others are asking for advice.

dmusic148 · #19 07-15-2010, 10:42 AM

Based on the settings the OP posted, he may have too much low-mid content going on(boost at 400-ishHz), and maybe not enough actual low-end(10-ish dB cut). This can make for a crappy sound, but usually it would be described as 'boxy.'

billfitzmaurice · #20 07-15-2010, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThunderousFunk

Did I not just say that I messed with the EQ?

Here is where I have the EQ set.
Input-1to2:00
Contour-7:00
Low-8to9:00
Mid-1to2:00
MidShift-8-9:00
Highs-12to1:00
Master-2to3:00

Boom typically occurs between 80 and 200 Hz over a narrow bandwidth. It's caused by a combination of a cab that's too small for the drivers within and the room. Standard EQs are almost useless when it comes to controlling it. What does work is a parametric EQ, which allows you to tune the EQ to the specific boom frequency and notch it out without affecting everything else. Another option is to lift the cab off the floor, creating a boundary null at the boom frequency. The problem there is determining how far to lift it, which can range from 1.4 feet at 200 Hz to 3.5 feet at 80 Hz.