Is 200W all tube head powerful enough?

u84six · #1 08-08-2011, 03:12 PM

I've noticed that some all tube heads are rated at under 300W (i..e 200, 225). Are these heads powerful enough for small to mid-sized venues with hard hitting drummers?

scotch · #2 08-08-2011, 03:16 PM

I've done amphitheaters & sheds with my 200w Mesa Buster. It got the job done with volume to spare! Of course, there's the pa helping out too naturally.

Usually, I use the Buster for small local gigs - honestly it's more than I need by a long shot.

Choice of cabinet is going to play a huge part in the equation as well.

kuys · #3 08-08-2011, 03:17 PM

Yes.

Watts are only half of the equation. How many speakers do you have, what is their sensitivity, and what configuration are they in?

I use a Peavey VB-2 (225w) with an Ampeg 810e, I play with three guitarists with half stacks ranging from 100-200w and a loud as hell drummer and I'm heard just fine.

groooooove · #4 08-08-2011, 03:20 PM

with tube heads, it depends on how dirty you're willing to cope with. in many cases, it will be loud enough, but it will be overdriven, witch you can love or hate. but 200W can be more than enough..

BassmanAd · #5 08-08-2011, 03:20 PM

Put an Orange AD200 through an Ampeg 810E and you'll never need another amp again.

BZadlo · #6 08-08-2011, 03:24 PM

I have a Mesa 400 (non plus) running 6L6's (180 W) and it's freaking loud no matter what I plug it into. I have to run the pre at about 6 on the hot channel to get it dirty.
I can get away with pretty high volumes at practice but am almost always asked, by the sound man, to turn down at venues.

CopperheadLXXIX · #7 08-08-2011, 03:25 PM

Paired with the right cab(s) a 200 watt all tube amp will be more than loud enough for almost any situation, especially if you have PA support.

u84six · #8 08-08-2011, 03:27 PM

I thought that the power amp's wattage should be roughly twice the cab's continuous power handling, no? I'm hearing that if your amp's wattage is lower than your cab's continuous power handling, you're going to stress the power amp and possibly fry it. So it you've got a power amp that puts out 200W at 4ohm and your cab is 500W at 4ohm, wouldn't that be a bad thing?

u84six · #9 08-08-2011, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CopperheadLXXIX

Paired with the right cab(s) a 200 watt all tube amp will be more than loud enough for almost any situation, especially if you have PA support.

The problem is that I can't rely on PA support because all the venues I play at are different. Some offer PA support, some don't.

scotch · #10 08-08-2011, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by u84six

I thought that the power amp's wattage should be roughly twice the cab's continuous power handling, no? I'm hearing that if your amp's wattage is lower than your cab's continuous power handling, you're going to stress the power amp and possibly fry it. So it you've got a power amp that puts out 200W at 4ohm and your cab is 500W at 4ohm, wouldn't that be a bad thing?

Underpowering a cab is an unsubstantiated myth.

jgroh · #11 08-08-2011, 03:33 PM

Depends on if you have PA support. I always do except for the smallest of places, and even then, I could if I wanted. If you do not, I would say 200 watts is right about the minimum to keep up.

BZadlo · #12 08-08-2011, 03:34 PM

If you don't have PA support I'd recommend a big cab. That or at least 2 smaller ones.
There's nothing like a big cab to get that nice depth.

dannybuoy · #13 08-08-2011, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by u84six

I've noticed that some all tube heads are rated at under 300W (i..e 200, 225). Are these heads powerful enough for small to mid-sized venues with hard hitting drummers?

Yes.

u84six · #14 08-08-2011, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scotch

Underpowering a cab is an unsubstantiated myth.

Really? It's kind of logical when I think of it. It seems that there has to be a sweet spot for the loudest you can be without frying the amp. Also, would a tube amp produce too much overdrive as you push an amp that has a higher wattage rating?

JimmyM · #15 08-08-2011, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by u84six

I thought that the power amp's wattage should be roughly twice the cab's continuous power handling, no? I'm hearing that if your amp's wattage is lower than your cab's continuous power handling, you're going to stress the power amp and possibly fry it. So it you've got a power amp that puts out 200W at 4ohm and your cab is 500W at 4ohm, wouldn't that be a bad thing?

Absolutely not a bad thing at all. Most likely that 500w cab will only take 250w real world since most companies lie and use the power that causes the voice coil to melt (thermal power handling), totally ignoring how cone excursion will cause it to start farting out and stressing at a much lower point. Ampeg is one of the few companies who doesn't use thermal to arrive at power handling ratings, but most do.

And even if they didn't, using an underpowered amp wont hurt the amp at all unless you insist on running it flat out all the way wide open, which pretty much nobody does because it sounds bad, or if they do, it's almost always a tube amp, and in that case, it will cause your tubes to burn out quicker but won't really damage the amp itself.

Another long-time rumor started by people who don't really know how gear works or a complete misunderstanding of audio concepts used in other applications.

mwbassace · #16 08-08-2011, 03:42 PM

I have to admit that all these questions about if such-n-such amp is powerful enough is somewhat baffling to me. I have played for years in loud rock cover bands and used an 8 ohm 4x10 cab which when paired with my solid state head would be rated at roughly 200 watts, maybe less, and never turned up past noon. Right now I'm using an old Peavey Mark VIII head thru an old EV 15" cab, and have way more than enough volume. Some of you guys must have crazy loud drummers/guitarists.

zachoff · #17 08-08-2011, 03:43 PM