210 or 112?

[15000volts]

I'll soon be ditching my combo and buying my first rig, so I need some advice.
I already chose the GK backline 600 to be my head, but still have some doubts about the cab.
My budget is a bit low, so any aguilar, markbass, mesa boogie or eden and such recommendations won't be of much use, so I ask you to please keep it below 400€.
I want to know what are the main differences between a 210 and a 112 cab, like volume, low end and other aspects that may be useful.
As a side-note, I recently saw a demo by Ed Friedland where he tested an amp with a 212 and then a 410, and I liked the 212 better. It was punchier, had a tad less high-mids than the 410(which, btw, sounded somewhat thin) and seemed to be a bit more even-voiced.

I hope you help me make up my mind

[RickenBoogie]

Unfortunately, you can't judge a cab by speaker size alone. Each one is designed differently, so even just comparing a bunch of 112's will show many tonal variations between each model. Also, you need to consider future additional cabs when you look for your first, because if you buy a 4 ohm 2x10 now, when you realise later that you need more volume and add another 210, you won't be able to, (the Backline head is 4 ohm minimum). So really, your best bet is to take your head out to some music shops and do a first hand demo of any cabs you're interested in, and be sure whatever you buy is an 8 ohm cab. Have fun.

[TomB]

Keeping it simple, a good quality 2X10 is generally louder and a bit more versatile than a similar 1X12, and will handle a slightly larger room. From there, it gets more complicated, and we'd need to know more about your needs to expand the comparison.

[D-Nut]

I use 2 112 cabs for larger venues, and a single 112 for smaller clubs. Either way I get everything I need from lows to highs. Nothing sloppy. Warwick 112 Neo's or an Ampeg SVT 112. And I can carry one in each arm!

[Marko5657]

How about a 212? GK 212MBE is 34lbs, 600-watt and they have 8-ohm and 4-ohm versions.

[DLESSING]

Sonic qualities aside (they are subjective), the 2 10s move more air than one 12. The amount of air moved by a speaker is related to the area of the speaker. Assume for simplicity the speaker is a disk and not a cone. The area is pi x radius squared. For a 10" the radius is 5" and the area is 25pi. Two 10s have a combined area of 50pi. The 12" speaker has a radius of 6" with an area of 36pi. Since 50pi > 36pi, the 2 tens move (a lot) more air. For comparison, a 15" speaker is 56.25pi, comparable to two 10s. Isn't high school math great?

[Sinclair]

Originally Posted by DLESSING

Isn't high school math great?

It would have been, if you took care of Xmax / Xlin and so on.
One 12 CAN move more air than 2 10s. It all depends on the drivers...

[impactwrench]

I use the same head. I liked the tone better with an avatar SB112 than the B210. However, when used together, I blew the 112 speaker. So I think you'd do better with a 210. IMO. Probably no access to a 12/6 in portugal? If you get the bad boy Kappalite 3012 woofer, I wouldnt be too afraid of blowing it with a BL600.

[DavePlaysBass]

In the price and size you are talking, you may wish to consider a 115 as well. I like my GK 115-iii neo. It was affordable, schlepable, and sounds great to my ears. I choose it over my Aggie GS112 and Avatar B210 neo for the single cab applications.

[TomB]

Originally Posted by Sinclair

It would have been, if you took care of Xmax / Xlin and so on.
One 12 CAN move more air than 2 10s. It all depends on the drivers...

Wouldn't that be more likely in theory than in practice? Can you suggest two specific commercially-available cabs to compare where a 1X12 "moves more air" than a 2X10? It would be interesting to know if that's the case when one goes cab shopping. Thanks.

[GrowlerBox]

Originally Posted by TomB

Wouldn't that be more likely in theory than in practice? Can you suggest two specific commercially-available cabs to compare where a 1X12 "moves more air" than a 2X10? It would be interesting to know if that's the case when one goes cab shopping. Thanks.

Unfortunately, the majority of commercial builders don't provide sufficient information to enable those judgments. I believe that Avatar, for example, uses "off the shelf" Eminence speakers, and these have published specs on their website, so you can make meaningful comparisons without hearing them, as long as you understand the numbers. Most others use "proprietary" speakers with secret specs so you need to try them, or rely on the opinions of others on particular cabinets, i.e. not just "15s are better than 10s" piffle (to borrow a technical term from BFM )

[bobbybass85]

Take a look at these videos on Mesa Boogie's site.

I know you're looking for something less expensive than that, but they are comparing the ENTIRE line of Power House cabs they make from their 1x12 and 2x10 all the way up through 4x12 and 8x10. The demo's have consistent tone and bass settigns for a good comparison. This has helped me a ton

[bobbybass85]

I suppose I should've mentioned that it's led me to want to shift away from my 2x10/1x15 rig to a 2x10/2x12 rig... probably avatar

[BigOldHarry]

this should be a poll

[bassteban]

Originally Posted by BigOldHarry

this should be a poll

W/a write-in option: I'd go 2 1x12s.

[Crockettnj]

Originally Posted by TomB

Wouldn't that be more likely in theory than in practice? Can you suggest two specific commercially-available cabs to compare where a 1X12 "moves more air" than a 2X10? It would be interesting to know if that's the case when one goes cab shopping. Thanks.

Aggy 112 Or an epi T112/UL112/PS112 should be able to move more air than a hartke TP210, the backline 210, or other lower price point alpha 10" loaded older style "price point" cab.

Never sat them side by side, but my (limited) experiences would lean to this being the case.

[Crockettnj]

Originally Posted by GrowlerBox

Unfortunately, the majority of commercial builders don't provide sufficient information to enable those judgments. I believe that Avatar, for example, uses "off the shelf" Eminence speakers, and these have published specs on their website, so you can make meaningful comparisons without hearing them, as long as you understand the numbers. Most others use "proprietary" speakers with secret specs so you need to try them, or rely on the opinions of others on particular cabinets, i.e. not just "15s are better than 10s" piffle (to borrow a technical term from BFM )

I've used those avatar Dl2510's in cabs before. they ar eno slouches and it'd take a pretty special 112 to move more air in the bottom than 2 of those.

[eastcoasteddie]

I've had a bit of an epiphany (no epiphany pun intended) regarding 10's and 12's.

I've been using 10's my entire "bassic" life. Within the last 6 months, I acquired a pair of 1x12 cabs. A single 1x12 sounds ok, but nothing to write home about. It wasn't until I put the 2nd 1x12 in the circuit that the tone just exploded. Unbelievable.

I also have a 2x10 that I use at home (yes, turned vertical) and it too sounds good...but not as good as the dual 1x12's.

At this point, I want to sell my 4x10 and use the 1x12-stack exclusively...it just sounds THAT much better. Sure, cab design plays a part in the tone and all that, but there IS something about how 12's sound when compared to 10's....I can't prove it, but my ears don't lie.

I might consider looking into a 2x12 cab in the future if I need one (and if I do, I'd put the 2x10 on top of it), but for now with the 2x10 and 12-stack I'm just about covered.

[DLESSING]

Originally Posted by Sinclair

It would have been, if you took care of Xmax / Xlin and so on.
One 12 CAN move more air than 2 10s. It all depends on the drivers...

This sounds way beyond Pi R squared. Can you elaborate?

[HertzWhenIPlay]

generally speaking, and there are Always exceptions...
when comparing drivers from the same line and same mfg, a 12" driver will often have a higher sensitity rating than a like 10" dirver.