Is a 2x10 big enough for live gigs? (New Portaflex content!)

Venom of God · #1 04-15-2011, 01:45 AM

So, I recently ordered one of those new PF500 heads and the 2x10 cab to go along with it, I'm a little worried now though as an older/more experienced bassist I know was saying last night that he didn't think a 2x10 would push enough air for live shows.. what are your thoughts on this?

I currently have a 4x10 with a 350watt Hartke head but want to go smaller due to touring in a van this year and needing the room, but not at the cost of being able to hear myself.

We play hard rock so it's usually pretty loud, though our guitarist doesn't use a big cab or anything (40watt Fender Deluxe).

This amp will have to tide me over for awhile as I'd be selling my current rig and then saving up for an SVT-VR, which will be a fair way off I reckon!

ninepoundjammer · #2 04-15-2011, 01:49 AM

It just depends on so many factors. How loud the rest of the band is. How loud you want to be. What kind of sound support is available. What kind of tone you're going for.

I could get by with a 2x10 on nearly any show I'd play these days, and I know plenty of other players in the same boat. But, I don't play in any ridiculously loud situations these days either.

crguti · #3 04-15-2011, 02:14 AM

yeah, it will depend of how loud is the band.

murphy · #4 04-15-2011, 02:52 AM

I do not think so

Venom of God · #5 04-15-2011, 02:54 AM

We play hard rock so it's loud.. but I wouldn't say ridiculously. We're only a three piece and, as stated before, the guitarist uses a 40watt Fender tube amp (with a single 12" speaker), usually with the volume around three. So basically I have to be able to keep up with that and the drum kit, as well as having enough headroom to fill up all the space left when the guitarist is doing a solo.

selftitled907 · #6 04-15-2011, 03:06 AM

Hmm....a 210 and a single 40w 12 for the guitar....must have a decent drummer to not drownd you guys out....either that or a decent PA to support you guys. my suggestion would be to try it out in rehearsal, just go through a song or two at show volume next time you get together and that should give you at least a feeling to what to look for at gigs. not sure how your practice space is (acoustics i mean), never mind the places you play. if the variables there are great....i would assume that its going to be impossible to say for sure really.

just remember its better to have to turn down then up and possibly start getting into speaker damage if that rig dosent keep up as you fear.

also on a side note....is that 210 cab 4 or 8 ohms? if its 8 ohms and still not enough....you could always add another 210 to that if your budget allows or even a 15...which would probally fill that dead air left laying around when the guitarist in a 3 piece starts playing a lead.

just food for thought...hope it helps.
-Gabe

Venom of God · #7 04-15-2011, 04:22 AM

The 40watt Fender is actually REALLY loud for what it is, like I said it never usually goes above three. The drummer hits pretty hard too on a large Ludwig kit, I'd say we generally do play pretty loud, which is why I'm worried about the 210. Space saving is the issue, though if a 210 won't be enough perhaps I'm better off just sticking with what I've got.

Thanks for the replys so far!

**ExaltBass** · #8 04-15-2011, 04:31 AM

I'd stick with the 4x10. The footprint is usually the same, and at least you're not hauling around an 8x10

Venom of God · #9 04-15-2011, 04:35 AM

The 210 would be more compact overall though, wouldn't it? Especially the Portaflex with the head inside the cab? I say this because it will live in a van along with the three of us, the guitar amp, the drum kit and our guitars for a few months..

Venom of God · #10 04-15-2011, 04:37 AM

I'm not trying to justify a purchase here btw, I haven't paid for it yet and can always back out. My original plan was to buy the Portaflex head and cab and then get an SVT-VR and 810 and have both. Now I'm starting to think maybe get an Ampeg 410 and maybe an SVT3 (done little research on those, just an idea) and then another 410 down the line. Thoughts?

Rockmusician · #11 04-15-2011, 04:43 AM

Depends on how loud the band plays and whether or not you are running through a P.A. The main reason for having an amp and speaker cabinet is so the members of the band can hear each other. Unfortunately, many musicians think they have to crank up the volume of their amp and project their sound to the audience. This usually destroys the over all sound of the band. There are many pro bassists and gutarists that use combo amps on stage and let the P.A. do the work. If this is not an option, a 210 would still work if you are playing in smaller rooms. I saw a guy use a 210 in a club that sat around 200 people and I could hear him fine.

Venom of God · #12 04-15-2011, 04:53 AM

We pretty much always have good P.A. support, I usually find myself frustrated at how quiet the sound guy has my amp as it's too quiet for me to hear with earplugs but then the drums hurt my ears! That's not to say that every venue we play on the road will be like that though, it's just the regulars we like down here.

icks · #13 04-15-2011, 04:57 AM

Considering most of 2x10 are 8 ohms and most bass amp deliver their true power at 4 ohms, you will definitivly push less air but sound much lower than running a 4x10.

With you own experience got from your previous gigs, have you ever undergone volume situation with your 4x10? If so, you'll get that more often.

Chris K · #14 04-15-2011, 05:00 AM

Size of venue...?
Room?
How many people in the audience?

dbase · #15 04-15-2011, 05:19 AM

NO ...... Yes without the drummer.

RNV · #16 04-15-2011, 05:26 AM

It really has to do with the PA/monitor support you get from the house in a live situation. If you were to pick up another 8ohm 210 and stack them vertically, given the stage is very stable, you would be able to hear yourself much better and your head would be pushing 4 Ohms and it's full potential. Have you thought about running 2 X 210? that could be an great way to have a small/large venue rig.

Venom of God · #17 04-15-2011, 05:44 AM

Having to bring two cabs along kind of nullifys the point, as the whole idea here is space saving for in the van. This is to be a tour rig, where would would be playing small to medium size pubs 90% of the time, I imagine. Definitely not festivals or anything!

Like I said, my eventual plan is to get a large SVT with an 810 for most gigs, this is just for space saving as we'll be sleeping in the same compact van as all our gear. What I'm trying to work out is if it'll be enough, which is starting to look like a no, unfortunately..

crguti · #18 04-15-2011, 05:53 AM

I have been playing in local bars with my Ashdown ABM 500 and Ashdown ABM 2x10. It's pretty loud and it's very convenient weight-wise. But if you still need more stage volume, just connect the DI out of your amp directly to the PA system.
When you play in bars, you cannot play so loud because people needs to be able to talk as well.
My 2 øres.

RNV · #19 04-15-2011, 05:59 AM

Yes, but 2 x 210 are easier to load in a van than a 410 as they are easier to squeeze into places a 410 can't.

drpepper · #20 04-15-2011, 06:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Venom of God

We pretty much always have good P.A. support, I usually find myself frustrated at how quiet the sound guy has my amp as it's too quiet for me to hear with earplugs but then the drums hurt my ears! That's not to say that every venue we play on the road will be like that though, it's just the regulars we like down here.

Almost anything will do if you always have PA support, right?

My experience and opinion coming from a bar band (rock covers - with a fairly heavy-handed drummer) perspective, and having compared a single TC Electronic RS210 and a single RS212, is that the RS210 just isn't quite enough without PA. IMO the 212 reaches that threshold, but not with much confidence in headroom.

Maybe add 212's to your consideration. You'd get some size savings.