2x10 low notes different live

lsbland · #1 10-31-2010, 11:40 AM

Just interested in others thoughts about this... I play a Lakland 55-02 with Barts through an Acoustic B200 head and GK cabinet with 2x10 Eminence Delta 10a's. http://eminence.com/proaudio_speaker...link=DELTA-10A
At rehearsal volumes, my low b string sounds great - pretty tight and punchy on low d's, eb's. Played a gig last night and didn't feel my low notes had near the presence as at rehearsal - played in a small bar-sized venue with full subwoofer reinforcement. I'm not sure exactly how it sounded in the house, but know my low notes just didnt have the punch on stage, even though my amp was turned up louder than at practice. I tried different eq setting and still felt I couldn't isolate the particular frequencies that matter in terms of the b string. Any advice, thoughts? In the market for a new amp and cab - thinking SWR Headlite and a smallish cab - maybe 1x15 or 2x12... What do you think?
Thanks in advance.

Craig_S · #2 10-31-2010, 11:46 AM

I think the room ate your low end. Try positioning yourself differently, next time. Make sure your cabinet isn't parallel to any walls. That's what I would try, first. I never set my cabs parallel to walls; they are always angled, somewhat.

Hollywars · #3 10-31-2010, 11:46 AM

Maybe because you were turned up, there wasn't as much headroom?

will33 · #4 10-31-2010, 11:47 AM

Couple things, delta 10's don't bring a lot in the lows to begin with, at least not at any appreciable volume, I ended using mine in a pair of little vocal monitors. Also depending on where your rig was placed in relation to the sub and the rest of the room, it may have interfered with/cancelled lows from your amp or just plain overpowered them.

PotsdamBass8 · #5 10-31-2010, 11:58 AM

My guess is that the cabinet was just not able to reproduce the same lows at the higher volume.

honestjohnny · #6 10-31-2010, 12:02 PM

Hmmm...you had subwoofer reinforcement and couldn't hear the low notes? Lows are omnidirectional, so you should have been hearing/feeling something when you played. Did the sound engineer turn you down in the PA? Maybe your cab was interfering with the sound out front and he/she thought it would be easier to take you out of the FOH than ask you to turn down the lows? What are your EQ settings? For a gig with subs, you really shouldn't need much low EQ, you'd want to focus on mids. Did you run a DI or mic? I'd ask a friend who was in the audience how it sounded. Good luck!

BassmanPaul · #7 10-31-2010, 12:14 PM

I don't think that a single 2x10 is adequate to gig with for most players. I always use a pair even for the smallest gig. That way my cabinets are always safe.

RickenBoogie · #8 10-31-2010, 12:44 PM

Yeah, that's exactly what I was gonna mention- a 2x10 alone is pretty minimal. As to your next amp, a single 15 ain't much either, I'd be looking at 2x12's or 4x10's, if you really want stage volume and better low end.

craig.p · #9 10-31-2010, 12:50 PM

Not sure if this will repeat anything someone's already said here. Sorry beforehand it if does. Anyway, if you've got mains support, as you did at that gig, then you should NEVER turn your stage kit up past the point where you can hear yourself enough to play well. In other words, you should do everything possible not to interfere with the mains that are covering the same frequency range as your stage kit. It's possible -- even probable -- that the higher you turned your amp up, or the more bass you boosted on your amp, the less net volume both you and the audience heard, due to phase cancellations, those being due to the differences in cab placement -- along with a possible polarity inversion, stage-kit electronics relative to mains kit electronics.

General rule of thumb: Mains support? Bring in a small amp and run it as quietly as possible. No Mains support? Bring in an SVT or a 360/361/370/301 and crank the stupid thing.

Hope this helps.

lsbland · #10 10-31-2010, 02:18 PM

1. The room was really mid-heavy.
2. We had a great sound guy... From everything I've heard, the house sound was close to our best yet. We played 25 gigs this summer (a lot for us, a band in which everybody's got a real job, some of us with kids and family) and this problem isn't new for me no matter what the space it seems. Lows seemed well produced out of the 18" subs, just not that low b grind on satge... Know what I mean?
3. The rig wasn't turned up any louder than I needed to hear myself - I make it a point to keep my stage volume just loud enough - listening to everyone else play is so important yet easy to forget.
4. I'm thinking I need to think hard about a new rig - the B200 head fried the original gold line 2x10s at an outdoor gig this summer... Replaced without the deltas because that's what I had readily available.
Thanks for the replies - what a great community we have here.

Rick Auricchio · #11 10-31-2010, 02:46 PM

Subs generally don't reproduce anything above 200Hz---most are crossed even lower---so they'll give you tons of mud.

But note definition requires higher frequencies. So the net result is way too much bottom, and no balance of upper frequencies.

Overall, I'd think the subs were hurting your situation. Had the sound guy rolled back the subs, you would have been better off. He should have your top end prominent in the mid-bass drivers.

parsons · #12 10-31-2010, 04:56 PM

crap sound guy/room ate your lows/ 2x10 will never be enough for a small bar.

We used to play this tiny bar that would hold about 50 people, always used at least a 410 in there or else I wouldnt be able to hear myself.