2x15 vs 8x10 cabs metal type tones

[grendle]

just looking for opinions. I like the deep bass tones from the 15's but also like the punch from 8x10's (think Tantric / spector type tone) but would like a little more low end. I see the Mesa 2x15 is a fav around here ( if you can find one), and the SVT 8x10 is the std rock/metal beast. Any opinions on one over the other? Are the ampeg svt 2x15 classics any good? I havent seen one to try it. I dont care for the hartke and fender 8x10's they just don't have that punch that the svt 8x10 has. Just looking to see what you all like.

[JGR]

How bout the Berg NV412? It is a nice cross between the punch of 10's and depth of 15's with the killer grind that only 12's can provide. I think it is one of THE top rock cabs.

[pablomigraine]

Metal / Progmetal / hardcore guy here....

I have used:

Bergantino NV215
Bergantino NV610
Ampeg SVT-810e
Mesa 215 (older with EV speakers)
Peavey 215
Brooklyn Gear 215

I will say that I have absolutely HATED every 215 I have I have ever played except the Bergantino. They all sounded flubby and awful.

One mistake I see a lot of people making is buying 215's thinking that will somehow improve their low-bass response live, especially if they use a dropped / altered tuning. This is 100% NOT TRUE. Especially considering that what really cuts through a metal mix and makes the bass line apparent (depending in how your guitarists EQ) is the low midrange like 120hz - 220HZ and the high midrange "clank" around 1.2Khz. Generally, I have found that sealed cabs do better for me in a denser mix, and the new Ampeg SVT-810e's (made in china) actually sound MUCH better than the last few years made by SLM.

The problem as I see it this.... making a properly designed ported bass reflex speaker enclosure for bass requires a great deal more "science" and actual design work than most MI manufacturers are willing to put in, as opposed to the relatively simple design needed for sealed cabinets.... Most companies like GK and Fender for example.... its throw two or four like-kind drivers in a box, punch a hole in it an Viola!! Bass cabinet! Of course it will reproduce sound, and it will sound like a bass.... but those of us who have played cabinets from Bergantino and FearFul understand the difference between a ported cab that's just thrown together (even with high quality components and speakers) and a cab that is desgined correctly from the ground up. All over talkbass people, including myself, rave about the Bergantinos and how fantastic they sound... but there's no magic to it, The Bergs are simply designed correctly from the ground up, using the best quality components, computer tuned to the parameters of the drivers (or the drivers specially spec'd for the enclosure), the best possible bracing and electrical components. The fact remains that very few "mass-produced" ported cabinets actually perform anywhere near as well as the boutique ones. The older Ampeg 410HLF would be a great example of a really poorly executed ported speaker cab. Sure its loud, but they sound artificially "deep" and scooped out, and the midrange response is terrible. With this and many other units like it, the tweeter is usually crap, and the crossover is usually cheap and leaves a big "hole" in the frequency spectrum at the X-over point.

Sealed cabinets however, if good speakers are used and at least some respect given to the manufacturers recommended minimum volume, tend to sound pretty good regardless. This, along with the fact that the mechanical damping provided by the internal air volume of the chamber behind the speaker, produce a "tighter" more controlled sound which *usually translates into a better cut in the mix. There's a reason you see than Ampeg 810 tower on 9 out of 10 major rock / metal tours... its loud as hell, sounds great, and cuts through really well.

You can find the Ampeg 810 used all over the place for $600 or less... but if you have the ability to... try to determine the cabinet material before you buy.... for several years these were made with OSB (basically sawdust and glue), and some were made with with particleboard.... and the older ones being the more desireable plywood.... if you're gonna buy a used one try to find a plywood one.

So anyway this post has turned out longer than I intended... You will probably not be happy with a 215, unless you like really muddy, indistinct sound... so I would recommend an 810 of the two choices you listed. If you're going to go with a ported 810 or other ported cabinet... I STRONGLY recommend you go with a Bergantino, or a Genz Benz as a second choice.

[walkerci]

Originally Posted by JGR

How bout the Berg NV412? It is a nice cross between the punch of 10's and depth of 15's with the killer grind that only 12's can provide. I think it is one of THE top rock cabs.

I'll second that. And the NV412 sounds great with all of my amps too. Mesa Boogie 400+, Eden WT800B, Mark Bass LMII, and Nemesis ENX260. Plenty of punch and low end.

[ric3xrt]

Originally Posted by grendle

just looking for opinions. I like the deep bass tones from the 15's but also like the punch from 8x10's (think Tantric / spector type tone) but would like a little more low end. I see the Mesa 2x15 is a fav around here ( if you can find one), and the SVT 8x10 is the std rock/metal beast. Any opinions on one over the other? Are the ampeg svt 2x15 classics any good? I havent seen one to try it. I dont care for the hartke and fender 8x10's they just don't have that punch that the svt 8x10 has. Just looking to see what you all like.

Wich Hartke 810? I'm useing a VX in My Metal band right now, love the tone.

[sKyLiNe505]

I was in the same boat as you and I decided to try a 412 cab. Bought an aguilar gs 412 and it was the right decision! You should also try a 4x12 cab

[Cb4rabid]

I've never been able to really play an 810, but I own a 215, and I love the thing. Sounds great with MY tone, and some added compression. As far as metal goes, I can get a crunchy bright tone if I wanted. It doesn't sound muddy at all.

[4StringShooter]

Originally Posted by grendle

just looking for opinions. I like the deep bass tones from the 15's but also like the punch from 8x10's (think Tantric / spector type tone) but would like a little more low end. I see the Mesa 2x15 is a fav around here ( if you can find one), and the SVT 8x10 is the std rock/metal beast. Any opinions on one over the other? Are the ampeg svt 2x15 classics any good? I havent seen one to try it. I dont care for the hartke and fender 8x10's they just don't have that punch that the svt 8x10 has. Just looking to see what you all like.

Well, I used that Fender 8-10 on my SVT, and I thought it was killer ! $600.00 LESS than the Ampeg, and every bit as good.

[JimmyM]

I like good 810's and good 215's, and I dislike bad 810's and 215's. Best thing is to judge on a case by case basis and don't get locked into speaker sizes. Speaker size alone tells you nothing about the sound of a cab. If it did, all cabs using the same size speakers would sound the same.

[grendle]

Thanks for the comments. I used to own a vintage svt 8x10 ( leather handles old! Lol). I hated it at practice, but put it on a stage and she would sing. I've had an old sunn 2x15, peavey 2x15, peavey 2x12, original goliath 4x10's , and hartke 115 and 4x10. I did like the hartke 215 with the alum cones also. I dont like the alum 10's , way too harsh for me, but alum for 15's makes them punch and gives em a little more on the highend. The hartke vx and alum 8x10's just don't have the punch of the svt or the low end imo. Just wasn't happy with their tone. I have not tried or ever seen a burg. I do like the looks of the 1515/66 fearful. Not a fan of the kappa's they spec though or the horn . Might check the specs and look at a different driver. The kappa's are good but there's a wierd spot in the fq resp I don't care for (the ones I heard anyway, lots of variables there) . Inns keep looking but might end up with an svt again. It's a love hate thing....

[JimmyM]

1515/66 would be pretty massive. But the only way I'll get rid of my 810 is at my estate sale.

[Sartori]

I use 15" speakers. Just because, no real reason. The big cab I'm using right now is a Sunn 2000s and it sounds pretty good for metal.

However, I've also played through a friend's SVT + 810, and it sounds pretty great as well. So just play a bunch of cabs and choose what you like.