3015LF Substitute??

groovaholic · #1 04-15-2011, 01:42 AM

Since Neo prices have doubled in the last couple months, can anyone recommend a traditional driver that will give performance in the ballpark of the 3015LF?

I've searched, but not found anything conclusive...

I'd love to keep weight down, but not to the tune of the $315 that 3015LF are going for now, and my amps are heavy bass-tards anyhow...

So, if a heavy, ceramic-magnet speaker could get me that kind of slam down low, but for less $$, I'd like to know what it is and where to find it.

John

lelandcrooks · #2 04-15-2011, 05:51 AM

There pretty much isn't anything. The neo magnets are so strong that it takes a HUGE structure to match it in a ceramic, driving the price up to around a neo. And it still won't match it.

315 is MAP. You can buy them for less than that. You'll have to add them to the cart everywhere to see the actual price.

rpsands · #3 04-15-2011, 08:08 AM

You can use a Kappa pro LF2 for about half the performance and 2/3rds the price.

Matching the performance is not happening.

* Note there are a couple B&C drivers that come close but they're all 250 bucks, which is the same as the price of a 3015LF. No reason to pay the same price for slightly less performance and 4x the weight.

tocs100 · #4 04-15-2011, 08:29 AM

How's about the 3015 nonLF? Xmax of 5.9mm vs. 9.6mm, 45Hz-ish res freq. but better mids maybe?

(BTW I'm referring to availability, not price.)

lbwdog · #5 04-15-2011, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tocs100

How's about the 3015 nonLF? Xmax of 6.8mm vs. 9.6mm, but better mids maybe?

NEO....It'll still be expensive!

groovaholic · #6 04-15-2011, 08:45 AM

Thanks guys -- keep em coming!

Looking at the specs, it seems like the massive displacement spec of the 3015LF is the white whale we're searching for...combined with good sensitivity and high thermal capability.

As was mentioned, the Kappa Pro 15LF is a decent option, and I've used them before, but I'm looking for better than decent...

In my case, its going into a Carvin 1503 which already seems like a light cab to me (especially when I stack my 95 Lb. Peavey Classic 400 on top of it) so if the cab gains 5-10 Lbs., I'm still OK with it.

Thanks again...

rpsands · #7 04-15-2011, 08:50 AM

It'll be minimum 10lbs, and all on the front of the cabinet. Probably more like 15 for a real comparable woofer.

rumblinbass · #8 04-15-2011, 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tocs100

How's about the 3015 nonLF? Xmax of 5.9mm vs. 9.6mm, 45Hz-ish res freq. but better mids maybe?

(BTW I'm referring to availability, not price.)

AFAIK the 3015 non-LF is a different speaker and not suited for the same applications. better suited for single 15 designs.

jnewmark · #9 04-15-2011, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rumblinbass

AFAIK the 3015 non-LF is a different speaker and not suited for the same applications. better suited for single 15 designs.

Actually, as far as the Carvin LS1503 goes, the 3015 non LF is a pretty good replacement, according to Greenboy.

Arjank · #10 04-15-2011, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by groovaholic

Looking at the specs, it seems like the massive displacement spec of the 3015LF is the white whale we're searching for...combined with good sensitivity and high thermal capability.

Don't be fooled by all the sensitivity numbers, what's important is the efficiency in the bass region.

Here are some non neo drivers that can be seen as a substitue for the 3015LF (and don't start the bla bla on the xmax, 7 or 9mm is moot in these specs from different manufacturers)

Btw. I just see that the Ciare 15NDH-4s is as expensive as the 3015lf. It will kick the 3015LF's butt. Ciare stuff is top notch.
Ciare 15NDH-4S - Ciare NDH15-4S is a 15" lightweight neodymium subwoofer speaker for all bass speaker systems- Ciare Speakers - Ciare NDH15-4S 15" lighweight neodymium speaker for subwoofer speaker systems. Ciare NDH15-4S 15" subwoofer speakers avail

Two non neo's:
RCF L15P200AK - RCF Speakers - RCF 15" speaker - RCF L15P200AK 1600 watt 15" speaker. RCF L15P200AK speakers available now.
B&C 15 PS100 is a 15" high power woofer for speaker subwoofer systems- B&C Speakers - B&C 15PS100 handles 1400 watts program. B&C 15 PS100 speakers available now.

greenboy · #11 04-15-2011, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arjank

Btw. I just see that the Ciare 15NDH-4s is as expensive as the 3015lf. It will kick the 3015LF's butt. Ciare stuff is top notch.
Ciare 15NDH-4S - Ciare NDH15-4S is a 15" lightweight neodymium subwoofer speaker for all bass speaker systems- Ciare Speakers - Ciare NDH15-4S 15" lighweight neodymium speaker for subwoofer speaker systems. Ciare NDH15-4S 15" subwoofer speakers avail

17.6 pounds. Kick butt? More like stickin' to the butt. Evidently all that pasta... ; }

jnewmark · #12 04-15-2011, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greenboy

17.6 pounds. Kick butt? More like stickin' to the butt. Evidently all that pasta... ; }

Mama Leone ?

**Rune Bivrin** · #13 04-15-2011, 09:40 AM

Well, Thomann in Germany still has them in stock for €168 which is around $235. In stock, too.

seamonkey · #14 04-15-2011, 10:05 AM

Over the lifetime of the cabinet. Even at double the cost, the 3015LF is worth the cost.
Amortize the cost over years and years. Assuming you're building a fEarful, this cabinet will last you much longer than brand-x - it's multipurpose and fits any situation.

rpsands · #15 04-15-2011, 10:26 AM

The Ciare weighs 8lbs more and is less sensitive in the bass region by 1-2db. It's also 80 dollars more expensive if you can even find one. It also has very low Q for a bottom driver...have you modeled it in a cabinet? The FR chart also looks kinda janky...enjoy crossing that over to a mid

A look at the B&C speaker shows it's at least 1db less sensitive in the bass region and has less Xmax -- arguable nature of Xmax aside.

The RCF actually looks like a good fit but I wonder what its SPL calculates at if you load the params into Winisd. It's also almost 20lbs heavier and the same price.

Not sure why any of these would be considered an option as they're all equivalent at absolute best and weigh a lot more and cost the same.

BassmanPaul · #16 04-15-2011, 10:36 AM

IMO if you are going to build a fEarful and cheapen out on the driver you might as well not bother in the first place. Pay the coin - you'll be glad you did in the long run.

tocs100 · #17 04-15-2011, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BassmanPaul

IMO if you are going to build a fEarful and cheapen out on the driver you might as well not bother in the first place. Pay the coin - you'll be glad you did in the long run.

The flipside is you'll be "voting" to let market-forces high-jack prices based on a nonlinear "scarcity." Besides that, an Eminence wholesaler has continually misled me over the last 2 weeks about product price and availability and homey don't play dat--the customer is always right. Lastly, my fEARful sub will only weigh 52lbs. with a Kappa Pro 15LF, the same as Carvin's BR115-neo, and be even lighter than their LS1503 or LS1501 sub, but better-built, over 2x the xmax, and the same avg. price of those 3 cabs. (And yeah that speaker's Fs is 35Hz vs the fEARful sub's 45Hz tuning, but the graphs at usspeakers actually recommend that higher tuning.)
Just one person's reasoning....kinda in shock that Carvin has a couple 15" models listed at less than 2mm xmax!

billfitzmaurice · #18 04-15-2011, 10:53 AM

When the 3012LF/3015LF came out we were given drivers the equal of much more expensive options from other manufacturers. They're still their equal, and now are priced that way, for the time being anyway. There are no other drivers that match them at or anywhere near the old price, that's what made them unique. Being unique means don't look for inexpensive alternatives, there aren't any.
Price increases will be coming on the European neo drivers as well, they're just a bit slower in reacting to the situation than Eminence. Any retailer who has not yet raised their prices on Eminence is asleep at the wheel, and is in for a rude awakening when they go to replenish their inventory.

Passinwind · #19 04-15-2011, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tocs100

my fEARful sub will only weigh 52lbs. with a Kappa Pro 15LF

That won't be a fEARful cab.

tocs100 · #20 04-15-2011, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Passinwind

That won't be a fEARful cab.

Lol: fair enough, a nEARful then. But with one person at a time taking a stand, maybe, just maybe we won't all be speaking Chinese in 20 years either. (Drop-in sig-quote!)

(BTW even GreenBoy is in initial stages of designing an alt fEARful around the neo scarcity, to paraphrase at least a few recent posts.)