3dB louder sounds like this - Page 5

**mjac28** · #81 02-05-2013, 03:23 AM

I could follow the first five or six posts then it started to sound like five guys standing around arguing about who's the shortest .

landau roof · #82 02-05-2013, 03:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seamonkey

Unless you push the graph up to where you're driving it at 100w, then it's 600w to reach the same db.

And of course, it's not linear, bass compression, where the speakers just aren't going to give you any more DB comes into play.

The way your post was written suggested the 8x10 would risk being overpowered or be run into power compression before it could be EQ'd to match the response of the 1x12, which, even without knowing the cabs at hand, is highly doubtful at best.

Downunderwonder · #83 02-05-2013, 04:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mjac28

I could follow the first five or six posts then it started to sound like five guys standing around arguing about who's the shortest .

What would you like to know?

jnewmark · #84 02-05-2013, 05:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mjac28

I could follow the first five or six posts then it started to sound like five guys standing around arguing about who's the shortest .

LOL. At the risk of getting flamed, if it's all nuts and bolts, cut and dried science and physics, why can't the tech guys ever agree on anything ?

Oobly · #85 02-05-2013, 06:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jnewmark

LOL. At the risk of getting flamed, if it's all nuts and bolts, cut and dried science and physics, why can't the tech guys ever agree on anything ?

'Cos tech guys are often right even when they're "wrong". Hard to take ALL factors into consideration, so deciding which ones are relevant can be subjective..... hence the many 'opinions'.

Adding a 2nd identical cab will be more beneficial than some think, while doubling amp power will be less beneficial than some think.

Nice to hear what 3dB and 6dB differences sound like, for comparison's sake.

Mark Reccord · #86 02-05-2013, 06:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jnewmark

LOL. At the risk of getting flamed, if it's all nuts and bolts, cut and dried science and physics, why can't the tech guys ever agree on anything ?

I think you'll find that most of the tech guys who actually know what they're talking about will tend to agree about most things and in some cases the arguments are over minutiae or semantics that aren't really relevant to the average bass player. Just enginerds being enginerds.

jnewmark · #87 02-05-2013, 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oobly

'Cos tech guys are often right even when they're "wrong". Hard to take ALL factors into consideration, so deciding which ones are relevant can be subjective..... hence the many 'opinions'.

Adding a 2nd identical cab will be more beneficial than some think, while doubling amp power will be less beneficial than some think.

Nice to hear what 3dB and 6dB differences sound like, for comparison's sake.

Thanks. I always thought adding a second cab was the best way to get louder, probably because that second cab is closer to your ears.

figuredbass · #88 02-05-2013, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Reccord

I think you'll find that most of the tech guys who actually know what they're talking about will tend to agree about most things and in some cases the arguments are over minutiae or semantics that aren't really relevant to the average bass player. Just enginerds being enginerds.

+1

fdeck · #89 02-05-2013, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jnewmark

LOL. At the risk of getting flamed, if it's all nuts and bolts, cut and dried science and physics, why can't the tech guys ever agree on anything ?

Quite a few of us understand the physical nuts and bolts, but not the psychological side of it. So far as I know, there is only one TB'er who is qualified in psychoacoustics, and he doesn't post on the electric bass side.

figuredbass · #90 02-05-2013, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jnewmark

Thanks. I always thought adding a second cab was the best way to get louder, probably because that second cab is closer to your ears.

+1 The inverse square law (volume vs listening distance from the source) can sometimes be the dominating factor when comparing a difference in perceived volume.

B-string · #91 02-05-2013, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fdeck

Quite a few of us understand the physical nuts and bolts, but not the psychological side of it. So far as I know, there is only one TB'er who is qualified in psychoacoustics, and he doesn't post on the electric bass side.

He is a smarter person that I

Although things were getting better here.

**mjac28** · #92 02-05-2013, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Downunderwonder

What would you like to know?

Ok my Mesa M3 Carbine has this rating 300 Watts @ 4 Ohms (165 @ 8) so I don't think I can add another cab because that would take it to 2 Ohms which is bad right? or can I add another 4 Ohm cab and get the 165w through both of them?.

B-string · #93 02-05-2013, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mjac28

Ok my Mesa M3 Carbine has this rating 300 Watts @ 4 Ohms (165 @ 8) so I don't think I can add another cab because that would take it to 2 Ohms which is bad right? or can I add another 4 Ohm cab and get the 165w through both of them?.

You can run two 8 ohm cabs or one 4 ohm cab or four 16 ohm cabs. All three of these will load the amp at 4 ohms and deliver 300 watts. If you have a 4 ohm cab already you can NOT add any more cabs as that would fall below the 4 ohm minimum rating.

will33 · #94 02-05-2013, 12:00 PM

It's at least nice to see things like baffle step, power compression, voltage/current/power supplies, etc. being taken into account here. Those are some things that sometimes get ignored when folks just start adding up decibels and watts. Sometimes a simple "X + X" doesn't always equal 2 X's.

It is a cool thread to show people what a little difference 3db really is. There are also several things that on a live gig make it sound like, and "feel like" a bigger difference than that.

ThisBass · #95 02-05-2013, 05:04 PM

I never did any PA concept design for a very big open air stage.
But I bed for god with respect to the audience that nobody of us will ever do a job like this.

B-string · #96 02-05-2013, 05:18 PM

Sorry ThisBass the last post didn't translate very well?

ThisBass · #97 02-05-2013, 05:25 PM

As far as I know, FOH people and engineers don't debate on principles too much.

**mjac28** · #98 02-05-2013, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by B-string

You can run two 8 ohm cabs or one 4 ohm cab or four 16 ohm cabs. All three of these will load the amp at 4 ohms and deliver 300 watts. If you have a 4 ohm cab already you can NOT add any more cabs as that would fall below the 4 ohm minimum rating.

Thanks B I think mine has the 4 Ohm speaker there was a 8 Ohm option the good thing is that the head slides out so I could get a road case and add two 8 Ohm cabs and be ready to go.

bigntasty · #99 02-05-2013, 05:57 PM

I just added a second cab yesterday to my Ampeg Micro VR rig. I've tried them in both stacked and side-by-side configurations and am very pleased with the result. I couldn't tell you whether it's a 3dB or 6dB difference from the single-cab rig, but WOW - a very obvious, wonderful difference!

Mark Reccord · #**100** 02-05-2013, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThisBass

I never did any PA concept design for a very big open air stage.
But I bed for god with respect to the audience that nobody of us will ever do a job like this.

I've done this. Multiple arena and/or shed tours, not to mention one off events with 60k+ people in attendance as a systems designer/engineer for a large production hire company. I got sick of being on the road all the time so I moved into the EE field. I miss driving the big PA rigs but don't miss the 20 hour days.