410 + 115 question

Al Heeley · #1 06-19-2010, 10:37 AM

Looking at adding a Hartke 115XL to my 410XL which will allow my amp head to run up to full power rating and shift a lot more air at larger gigs.
Both cabs are 8ohm but the 410 is 400W and the 115 is 200W - is that likely to be a problem running them both in parallel from the amp (Peavey Tour 450)?

WJGreer · #2 06-19-2010, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Al Heeley

Looking at adding a Hartke 115XL to my 410XL which will allow my amp head to run up to full power rating and shift a lot more air at larger gigs.
Both cabs are 8ohm but the 410 is 400W and the 115 is 200W - is that likely to be a problem running them both in parallel from the amp (Peavey Tour 450)?

It will create a 4 ohm total load and will work fine, although that one 15" driver will receive as much amplifier wattage as all four of the 10" ones. The academic thinking would suggest it better to add a second 410. What you think sounds better is really the right answer IMO, though. I see 410/115 cabinet combinations all the time, and they generally sound great.

Tim C. · #3 06-19-2010, 10:50 AM

You really should try the 410 + 410 combo as well as the 410 + 115. I can almost gaurantee the 410 + 410 will be louder and sound better than the 410 + 115.

SurferJoe46 · #4 06-19-2010, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim C.

You really should try the 410 + 410 combo as well as the 410 + 115. I can almost gaurantee the 410 + 410 will be louder and sound better than the 410 + 115.

You KNOW that's a general and sweeping declaration - right?

What I would say is that a dual 410 has a lot more 'push' and since moving air is what bass is basically all about, then you are categorically right - but there are exceptions aren't there?

The 115 will fill in some of the lower nuances and I feel that a 410 (or even a 210) AND a 115 together sound incredibly full-ranged with no losses on either end.

Then, of course, comes into play the OP's venues too.

It is unfair to make such a sweeping statement, although for your application it may be exactly right and the best, but the 410/115 combo is something that can not only be heard, but felt well too.

BassmanPaul · #5 06-19-2010, 11:03 AM

A 4x10 and a 1x15 is a terrible combination. The 4x10 will leave the 15 behind with higher efficiency, power handling and most likely will go lower too. Both having the same impedance they will get the same power from the amplifier. That means at the maximum output of the head the 15 will be over its maximum while the 4x10 will be cruising along.

Paul

FunkyBassline · #6 06-19-2010, 11:11 AM

Just out of curiosity would a 210 and a 115 both at 8 ohms be an "acceptable" matchup? I've tried it out and think it sounds good, but I'm just curious about the scientific side here.

will33 · #7 06-19-2010, 11:14 AM

These guys have a good point. Let's just say for example your amp can put out 400 watts. Each cabinet will recieve 1/2 of that. The 115 will be getting all 200 watts going into one speaker, the 410 will get the same 200 watts but divided between 4 speakers so each one will be getting 50 watts. The 15 will run out of gas long before the 410 will.

OTOH, you see people run this setup all the time and it will work. The 15 is still audible because it can likely fill in lower frequencies that the 410 doesn't have.

BassmanPaul · #8 06-19-2010, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FunkyBassline

Just out of curiosity would a 210 and a 115 both at 8 ohms be an "acceptable" matchup? I've tried it out and think it sounds good, but I'm just curious about the scientific side here.

Yes but The best match will always bee two identical cabinets.

Paul

SurferJoe46 · #9 06-19-2010, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FunkyBassline

Just out of curiosity would a 210 and a 115 both at 8 ohms be an "acceptable" matchup? I've tried it out and think it sounds good, but I'm just curious about the scientific side here.

I do this set up quite often, even last night in a jam/gig I played and it was really very nice. What I like is the headroom you get with this combo - and you don't have to max-out to hear that it really packs both ends of the bass spectrum.

Yeah - if I was cranking to fill a 40 acre site (and I do that sometimes) I would go with just the multiple 10s - LOTS of 10s!

But in a friendly jam or playing Motown or blues, I prefer to use the 10/15 combos as they really fill the room nicely.

One thing I DO sometimes is to put the 15 on top of the 410. It's just 'different' and seems to make the 15 sound a little neater.

Again: a caveat - Your Results May Vary.

4-string · #10 06-19-2010, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FunkyBassline

Just out of curiosity would a 210 and a 115 both at 8 ohms be an "acceptable" matchup? I've tried it out and think it sounds good, but I'm just curious about the scientific side here.

IME and IMO, a 2x10 and 1x15 match up very well. Much more so than 4x10/1x15. So if you were asking me, I'd say either a pair of 4x10s or the 2x10/1x15 setup, depending on how big/loud you need.

SurferJoe46 · #11 06-19-2010, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BassmanPaul

Yes but The best match will always bee two identical cabinets.

Paul

I know you know this a lot better than I do - so if you have, say a 115 at 4 Ohms and a 410 at 8 Ohms - is that a better match or do I have that backwards?

derridiandrift · #12 06-19-2010, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim C.

You really should try the 410 + 410 combo as well as the 410 + 115. I can almost gaurantee the 410 + 410 will be louder and sound better than the 410 + 115.

I have an 810 cab and I have a 410+115 setup. I like the sound of 810 better. I use the 410+115 when the gig has stairs. I'm selling the 115 and I want to buy another 410.

ampegabuser11 · #13 06-19-2010, 11:26 AM

what about a 2x12 and 4x10?

Al Heeley · #14 06-19-2010, 11:27 AM

Well I already have the 410 and the matching 115 is a pretty good second hand offer, so i think I'm gonna go for it

There are reasons for optimum efficiency to put 2 x 410's together, but we're not trying to wring every efficiency out of the system here, the 410 and 115 combination seems pretty popular.

Al Heeley · #15 06-19-2010, 11:29 AM

When i had the marshall bass system that was a 210 combo and 115 extn cab, the 115 added a huge amount of extra authority to the tone.

will33 · #16 06-19-2010, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SurferJoe46

I know you know this a lot better than I do - so if you have, say a 115 at 4 Ohms and a 410 at 8 Ohms - is that a better match or do I have that backwards?

The other way around, an 8ohm 15 and a 4ohm 210. All three would be getting roughly 1/3 power. You'd need either a 2ohm stable mono head or a stereo head.

BassmanPaul · #17 06-19-2010, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SurferJoe46

I know you know this a lot better than I do - so if you have, say a 115 at 4 Ohms and a 410 at 8 Ohms - is that a better match or do I have that backwards?

Backwards. You need the 1x15 to "draw" less power than the 4x10. That means that the 15 has to have a higher impedance than the 4x10.

A lot of folk still live under the illusion that a bigger cone produces lower depth. This may have been true many years ago but is certainly no longer so. look at Acme with its tens and PJB with its fives. Both capable of reproducing the fundamental of a B string.

Paul

Munjibunga · #18 06-19-2010, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim C.

You really should try the 410 + 410 combo as well as the 410 + 115. I can almost gaurantee the 410 + 410 will be louder and sound better than the 410 + 115.

This is VERY true. In fact, I wouldn't even waste my time on the 410+115.

Munjibunga · #19 06-19-2010, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Al Heeley

Well I already have the 410 and the matching 115 is a pretty good second hand offer, so i think I'm gonna go for it

There are reasons for optimum efficiency to put 2 x 410's together, but we're not trying to wring every efficiency out of the system here, the 410 and 115 combination seems pretty popular.

Popular with whom? It's not about efficiency, it's about tone. It would be wise to try another 410 before you pull the trigger on the 115. The difference will change your mind.

Munjibunga · #20 06-19-2010, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BassmanPaul

A 4x10 and a 1x15 is a terrible combination. The 4x10 will leave the 15 behind with higher efficiency, power handling and most likely will go lower too. Both having the same impedance they will get the same power from the amplifier. That means at the maximum output of the head the 15 will be over its maximum while the 4x10 will be cruising along.

Paul

Yet another truism. Check the specs on 410s vs 115s from any given manufacturer. The 410 will almost always have a lower bottom end and higher SPL. Fifteens subtract tone.