410+212 cab combo?

PunkRocker33133 · #1 02-15-2011, 09:57 PM

I'm thinking of getting two 8 ohm Avatar cabs, one 212 and one 410 for use with a GK 700 rb in a loud hardcore/metal setting. Any one using a similar setup? Pros? Cons?

dukeisdog · #2 02-15-2011, 11:29 PM

I have the 212, and played bass in a hardcore band. I'm now drumming in that band, but the 212 with my Peavey Tour 700 was more then enough. I'd love to get a 410, or an identical 212 to go with my first cab, I bet it would sound killer. I know there are some guys who run this two cab setup, as I've seen pictures in the Avatar club thread.

MysticMichael · #3 02-16-2011, 01:48 AM

What I'd like to know is: Where did this idea ever come from that using dissimilar cabs together somehow yields "the best of both worlds" in frequency response & tone? If anything, it's quite the opposite - with the weaknesses of Cab A more likely to cancel out the strengths of Cab B. And vice versa...

MM

Hellbastard · #4 02-16-2011, 02:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MysticMichael

What I'd like to know is: Where did this idea ever come from that using dissimilar cabs together somehow yields "the best of both worlds" in frequency response & tone? If anything, it's quite the opposite - with the weaknesses of Cab A more likely to cancel out the strengths of Cab B. And vice versa...

MM

Probably from the cab manufacturers that in the sold the idea that a 410 paired with a 115 would offer the best definiton, without sacrificing low end.

Stefan Okon · #5 02-16-2011, 05:14 AM

my 4x12 arrived a few weeks ago and man what a sound. i think thats a perfect replacement for 4x10 plus 1x15!

PunkRocker33133 · #6 02-16-2011, 02:54 PM

Would it be better to go with 2x212's then? I was looking at it as a way to have one lighter cab for practice and I can add the second for shows

impactwrench · #7 02-16-2011, 02:59 PM

I had avatar 1x12 and 2x10 and I think I preferred the tone of the 12. So I would do a pair of 2x12's myself...but wait, I just got the TB153, and it whomps. I used to use 2 smaller cabs, now I use one bigger one and have all I need.

dukeisdog · #8 02-16-2011, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PunkRocker33133

Would it be better to go with 2x212's then? I was looking at it as a way to have one lighter cab for practice and I can add the second for shows

Two of the 2X12's wouldn't be too bad. I'm 17, and only about 130 lbs, and have no trouble getting my cab up and downstairs, lifting it, etc. It's not too big, though you could always go the 2X12 and 2X10 route. Either way will sound great I think.

xring · #9 02-16-2011, 03:38 PM

I do the Aguilar 212 - 410 thing and it's spectacular. Don't let all the ney sayers convince you that you will get automatic crap tone using dissimiliar cabs. I'm not saying it will always work, but in some cases (alot?) it does. I will concede that I have not heard 2 Aggie 212's stacked. That (might) be better. It's hard to imagine.

AwkwardLoudness · #10 02-16-2011, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PunkRocker33133

Would it be better to go with 2x212's then?

Two 2x12 cabs stacked vertically would be a better option. An even better option would be two Avatar TB153 cabs stacked. Dissimilar cabs tend to interfere with one another which creates an imbalance in volume among frequencies and among different areas of the room. Some mis-matched cabs coordinate better than others, and some bassists are very happy mixing cabs.

PunkRocker33133 · #11 02-16-2011, 05:16 PM

The problem with the bigger cabs is that I'm 17, 135 lbs, and have a torn rotator cuff and multiple other shoulder issues so heavy cabs are not really a good idea for me. The 410/212 route seems to allow the most flexibility while allowing me to not injure myself.

OlSkewl56 · #12 02-16-2011, 05:20 PM

Recently added a 2nd B212, it's worth the hassle, most always have help loading in and out though.
Maybe 2 410's would be an advantage for you.

Bass_Pounder · #13 02-16-2011, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PunkRocker33133

The 410/212 route seems to allow the most flexibility while allowing me to not injure myself.

Huh...............

The Avatar cabs are the same size, but the 2X12 weighs less than the 4X10

PunkRocker33133 · #14 02-16-2011, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bass_Pounder

Huh...............

The Avatar cabs are the same size, but the 2X12 weighs less than the 4X10

But would 2 2x12s have the same amount of dispersion one and a 410 would have? It would be easier to leave the 410 at the practice space and have the 212 at home/to add for gigs and other jams, or at least it seems like it would be

RickenBoogie · #15 02-16-2011, 05:51 PM

Go with 2 of the 212's, and you'll be glad you did.

GrowlerBox · #16 02-16-2011, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PunkRocker33133

But would 2 2x12s have the same amount of dispersion one and a 410 would have? It would be easier to leave the 410 at the practice space and have the 212 at home/to add for gigs and other jams, or at least it seems like it would be

The 212 on its end will have far better dispersion than any "square" configuration 410. 2 x 212s stacked end on end will be loud, near your ears, no phasing issues, good mid/high dispersion, lighter than a 212/410 combination -- there's really no contest.

AwkwardLoudness · #17 02-16-2011, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PunkRocker33133

But would 2 2x12s have the same amount of dispersion one and a 410 would have? It would be easier to leave the 410 at the practice space and have the 212 at home/to add for gigs and other jams, or at least it seems like it would be

A pair of vertically stacked 2x12 cabs would have the best horizontal dispersion because no speakers are mounted side by side. Also the vertically taller cab setup allow one to hear himself better. Side by side speakers interfere with one another with phase cancellation and comb filtering. 4x10 and 8x10 cabs are much louder directly in front of them for this reason. Regardless of that limitation, I admit to liking like certain 8x10 rigs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RickenBoogie

Go with 2 of the 212's, and you'll be glad you did.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrowlerBox

The 212 on its end will have far better dispersion than any "square" configuration 410. 2 x 212s stacked end on end will be loud, near your ears, no phasing issues, good mid/high dispersion, lighter than a 212/410 combination -- there's really no contest.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bass_Pounder

Huh...............

The Avatar cabs are the same size, but the 2X12 weighs less than the 4X10

Wise words above ^^^^

Gearhead17 · #18 02-16-2011, 11:27 PM

I did the Eden 212xlt and 410xlt for a little while and the resulting sound was mud. It was great for finger style stuff, but if I wanted some clarity, I could not dial it in. Moved on to two 410's and life was SO MUCH EASIER to handle! I had control over my sound and got everything I wanted tone wise without crazy adjustments.

Two identical cabs will get the sound you want. One 212 for practice and two for shows.

JTE · #19 02-17-2011, 08:22 AM

I really liked the few times I used both my Eden cabinets (a D212XLT and a D410XLT). Worked great for me when I needed a lot of sound, but I really liked the way those two particular cabinets complemented each other, which may not be the case for everyone, nor for every combination of 2x12/4x10 cabinets. There are of course some real problems with mixing cabinets of different drivers, so it may not be ideal. And while I understand the issues of mixing cabinets, and the problem with the staggered placement of the 12's in most 2x12 cabinets, it really comes down to what it sounds like to the player. I've always hated the 1x15/4x10 sound no matter what cabinets they were, and if I had to start from scratch again I'd opt for multiple small matched cabinets that I could vertically stack as I needed them.

I'm still waffling between the sound of my Avatar SB-112 and my Avatar B-210. They are voiced differently, and I KNOW it's false to assume anything about sound based solely upon driver size. That's why I have one of each, to see how they sound. If I needed to build the big gigging rig today, I think I'd wind up with a vertical stack of two of the 2x10 boxes, but I haven't ruled out a pair of 12's yet.

John

Joeykun · #20 02-17-2011, 09:20 AM

I gig the Genz Benz ShuttleMAX 12.0 with the Uber 410/212 cabs.
Not once have I heard any phasing issues or weakness of one cab over the other.
My results are a mid focused 410 that really cuts without being harsh or honky.
Plus, a big bottom with the 212 to round it all out. Simply the best rig I ever had!

I play large venues, theaters, etc. and the Genz Benz 410/212 combo really works well and sounds amazing at any volume!
Here is my live rig: