4x10 + 1x15 vs. 2 - 4x10 stacks

[m_c_zero]

Ok, so here's my situation: I've got a GK Goldline 500 head which is rated at 4ohms and pushes 500 watts. As for the cab, I've got a GK GLX 410 cab that is rated at 8ohms and 400 watts. Needless to say, the head is only pushing out about half the power it could be.

Anyway, I'd like to add another stack to get the full volume and sound out of the head. I've been told to look into adding another 4x10 stack into the mix, but I think it's a bit extreme for the places that I play and don't want to carry that extra weight around.

I've been thinking about doing a 1x15 instead. I found a GK BLX115-II that's rated at 8ohms and 200 watts. If my math is correct, it would bring the speaker combo to 4ohms and 600 watts, which would be perfect for my head, I think.

Anyone have any thoughts about this? Anyone tried this speaker combination before? Just thought I'd ask before I look into purchasing the extra cab.

[prd004]

I like the 4x10 and 1x15 combo, it essentially gives you three different rigs since you can use the cabs together or seperately. However, I don't think there's much weight difference between a 4x10 and a 1x15, so I wouldn't choose one over the other thinking it will be easier to haul around.

[silky smoove]

Mixing cabs will always deliver unknown results. May be good, may be awful.

Matching cabs will deliver consistent results. Will always be good, unless you didn't like the cabinet to begin with, in which case, it's time to look for something new altogether.

[Jeremy Allen]

Sure, two 8ohm cabs would give the amp a 4ohm load, but the power would be distributed evenly, so the cab rated to handle 200 watts would get 250 watts and so would the cab rated to handle 400 watts. Those cabs probably have different sensitivities, so the balance between the two would be off. Who knows, you might like it though.

The amp is probably pushing more than half of its power into the 8-ohm load; it's not a linear thing (the power doesn't double as the impedance is halved). The different 500watt@4ohm heads I've used were rated at 320-380watt@8ohm, for example.

You'll notice more of a difference from the increased speaker area than you will from the increased power output, in my experience. And as far as that goes, I've always found that it's best to yield to physics and use two of the same type of cab if you're going to stack them (meaning another GLX410). If you were bi-amping, it's a different story (meaning, sending the low frequencies to the 1x15 and the higher frequencies to the 4x10). But I can promise that you will have excellent results using two of the exact same cabinet, whereas mixing and matching may work well, may not, may just be louder and grosser in a way that you dig or don't.

EDIT: Silky Smoove was already on it while I was typing.

[billfitzmaurice]

Originally Posted by m_c_zero

Needless to say, the head is only pushing out about half the power it could be.

So what? If it's loud enough it's loud enough. If not...

If my math is correct, it would bring the speaker combo to 4ohms and 600 watts

Watts are moot. Decibels are what matter. Gaining less than 4dB is equally moot, and that's the most that adding a 1x15 will get you. If one cab isn't enough don't dick around with half measures, add a second identical cab, you'll get 6dB additional output and all will be hunky dory.

[Marko5657]

+1 to the above comments.

Don't mix cabs.

[dave956]

Originally Posted by m_c_zero

Ok, so here's my situation: I've got a GK Goldline 500 head which is rated at 4ohms and pushes 500 watts. As for the cab, I've got a GK GLX 410 cab that is rated at 8ohms and 400 watts. Needless to say, the head is only pushing out about half the power it could be.

Anyway, I'd like to add another stack to get the full volume and sound out of the head. I've been told to look into adding another 4x10 stack into the mix, but I think it's a bit extreme for the places that I play and don't want to carry that extra weight around.

I've been thinking about doing a 1x15 instead. I found a GK BLX115-II that's rated at 8ohms and 200 watts. If my math is correct, it would bring the speaker combo to 4ohms and 600 watts, which would be perfect for my head, I think.

Anyone have any thoughts about this? Anyone tried this speaker combination before? Just thought I'd ask before I look into purchasing the extra cab.

Over the years I have done both combinations with several different brands, currently GK, a Fusion 550 pushing a BLX 410 with tweeter and an RBX 115. I did this with Hartke, both XL and Transporters. In general, things worked out like I expected- the rigs with the 15s sounded warmer, the 10s punchier. I love the sound of the 15s behind me, but probably too much bottom out front (clubs). I think what I'll wind up doing is selling both and getting Neo410s. Much lighter! (I'm really old!)

Bottom line is, buy what makes you happy. There's no need to get too uptight about power ratings-if anything, extra power gives you more headroom and a cleaner sound.

I guess I'm saying I would lean toward 2 4x10s, but there's no "rule" that dictates one way or another.

[bassclef216]

Hey not to hijack this threead or anything but I am considering the GK Goldline 500 and can't find much about it. How long have you had it and how do you like it.

Also, have you considered adding an 8 ohm 210 cab to the 410 you already have. Might give you a little more oomph to your rig. Make sure it can handle the 250 watts it will be getting. You'll be keeping the driver sizes the same which people on this board seem to encourage.

[billfitzmaurice]

Originally Posted by bassclef216

Also, have you considered adding an 8 ohm 210 cab to the 410 you already have. Might give you a little more oomph to your rig. Make sure it can handle the 250 watts it will be getting.

It also will be the weak link in the chain, as it will get the same power as the 410. To do it right the 210 should be 16 ohm, using the same drivers as the 410, so that all six drivers receive the same signal. As for power handling, a 250 watt rated 210 will likely be able to handle perhaps 100 to 125 watts before exceeding the driver excursion limits, and that's one reason why watts are moot.

[bassclef216]

I have much to learn
If both cabs are rated at 400 watts RMS @ 8ohms...and the the head is only giving 250 watts to each cab (at full power)...wouldn't both cabs be working well within their operating limits while using all the power that the head can supply?

[m_c_zero]

Originally Posted by bassclef216

Hey not to hijack this threead or anything but I am considering the GK Goldline 500 and can't find much about it. How long have you had it and how do you like it.

I used to use a Backline 600 which I liked quite a bit. It had a great tone to it and I loved the "boost" feature that it had, gave the amp a real growl to it. That head was only 300 watts, so it was pushing maybe 200 at best to the 4x10 stack, so I wanted something with a bit more power which is why I upgraded to the Goldline 500. I picked it up on Musiciansfriend for $350 (now they've got it for $299). I've had it about 6 months now and really like it. The tone control on it is awesome. The one complaint I have on it is that it has both a gain and volume knob, though you have to add gain to the overall sound to get any sort of volume out of it, so I wouldn't recommend it to anyone playing any sort of "clean" style music. It also has the boost function on a seperate channel as well, which can be controlled with a footswitch which I like because I use that in place of a distortion pedal. Overall, it's a damn good amp for the price, though I have never owned anything other than GK products, so my review is a bit biased.

[JTE]

A. Power rating of speaker cabinets are pretty pointless data points. I ignore them and have for most of 30 years.
B. There's a LOT of discussion on the TB amp forum regarding the problems with a 1x15/4x10 stack. It looks cool, and there MIGHT be real differences in sound, but it's simply not BECAUSE of a 15" speaker or a 10" speaker. Read up on it, it's a common set up, but probably not the smartest choice. That has to do with physics, how the speakers work together (or don't work together), etc.
C. The 4x10/2x10 stack will have the individual speakers in the 2x10 working harder than the individual speakers in the 4x10 unless you do as Bill F. says. Yeah, they'll be within the rated range (which merely means the point at which the voice coil melts), but because they'll be working harder, you're more likely to damage them sooner. The maximum excursion, a/k/a "xmax" (how far the speaker motor assembly can extend) is what you're dealing with here.

Given the physics and the control, I'd personally opt for another 4x10 that matches what you have. "Overkill" is simply not the issue. It'll be the same size stack as the 1x15/4x10 stack, but it'll project into the room more predictably ensuring that the sound you hear on stage is most similar to the sound out in the crowd. And the amp has a volume control so it won't be too loud.

John

[m_c_zero]

This is all good information. Thank you guys for your input. My reasoning for going with a 1x15 instead of another 4x10 or 2x10 stack is that I do feel that the 1x15 has a more warm, heavier low-end tone and the 4x10 stack has a punchier, high-end tone. I think my best bet is to go to a music shop and try out the speaker combo with comparible speakers before making any decisions. I definitely don't want to add a speaker though that my head will be pushing too much power to and damage the driver.

[bassclef216]

Still learning here and trying to make sense of all this. My logic tells me that the 210 cab rated for 400 watts RMS would only be getting 250 watts from a 500 watt head at full throttle. In normal playing conditions I can't immagine cranking the head to full power so in actual usage the head would be putting out even less power to the 210 (so well under the 400 watts it's rated for and even less than the 250 watts that the head is pushing to it. So, yeah the drivers in the 210 will be working a little harder than those in the 410, but still way under their capacity. Right????

And thanks for the info on the Goldline 500 head. Too many knobs frustrate me. I want a simple head with a on/off switch,a volume knob, and maybe a Low-Mid-High EQ. Hartke makes a 500 watt head that is almost just like that and I am looking at that one also (the LH500).

[ItsMichaelYeah]

Originally Posted by m_c_zero

This is all good information. Thank you guys for your input. My reasoning for going with a 1x15 instead of another 4x10 or 2x10 stack is that I do feel that the 1x15 has a more warm, heavier low-end tone and the 4x10 stack has a punchier, high-end tone. I think my best bet is to go to a music shop and try out the speaker combo with comparible speakers before making any decisions. I definitely don't want to add a speaker though that my head will be pushing too much power to and damage the driver.

The whole 15's having more low end isn't really true. As a person who uses the 410/115 combo I will say I love the sound I get right now I'm running some custom 2x10/1x15 cabs . But everyone is right the more efficient way to run your rig is with two identical cabs.


But I highly recommend that you go and try the cabs out. Because it's all about what you like and if you like the mixed speakers that's cool because it's what you like.

[Bean639]

sorry to through a wrench in the whole thing but....

sell your cab and get a nice 4ohm 410. A nice 410 will prolly do everything you want and it will be only one cab to carry around.

[JTE]

Another thing to consider- while the 1x15/4x10 might sound good to you, the point is that it's NOT because it's a 15" speaker. Speaker size in a full-range cabinet simply has little to nothing to do with what you hear. Now you might LIKE the sound of a particular 15" cabinet design, but it's due to choices the designer of the cabinet made, not because it's a 15" speaker. Just know WHY you're buying something instead of assuming the 15 is "warmer" or "deeper" or whatever.

I'd also argue against getting a single 4Ω speaker cabinet. The difference in wattage isn't really translated into a difference in acoustic output that you're going to notice. And it limits your options. If you have a single 4Ω cabinet that's all you can use. And if you find yourself in need of moving more air, having more speaker cone area is going to make a much more efficient change than merely having more power. Re-read Bill's comments about watts, etc. up above in post #5.

John

[billfitzmaurice]

Originally Posted by bassclef216

I have much to learn
If both cabs are rated at 400 watts RMS @ 8ohms...and the the head is only giving 250 watts to each cab (at full power)...wouldn't both cabs be working well within their operating limits while using all the power that the head can supply?

One more time, but with feeling!

As for power handling, a 250 watt rated 210 will likely be able to handle perhaps 100 to 125 watts before exceeding the driver excursion limits, and that's one reason why watts are moot.