4X10, considering adding a 15 for more low end. Need a little input.

AciDBatH666 · #1 10-25-2010, 02:25 PM

I'll try to give the cliff notes, because I tend to ramble a lot.

Current setup, SWR Workingman4004 400W head, SWR 4X10 cab. I started jamming with some old friends doing old school Metallica covers. I was using my Ibanez BTB 5 string at first, but bought a B.C. Rich Trace Warbeast because
1) the BTB was VERY heavy
2) playing metallica covers I'll prolly never use the B string
3) I wanted a 4 string with a thinner/faster neck
4) I've always wanted something in the Warlock family
5) It gave me a reason to buy another toy, lol

Last night our drummer tells me he can only hear the mids and highs coming thru my picking and none of the low end is getting thru. The bassist in his other band is using a 100W 15" combo and cuts thru awesome. They play Southern Rock/Metal (think Down/Crowbar) so I figured since basically all he's playing is low notes it could be why.

Anyways... I've got two options I'm looking at. I've been wanting to add a 15" to my setup for a while and finally found someone on Craigslist with a 2X10 and 1X15" Carvin setup for $175..... Or I can go with another ad and get a GK 1100rb 700w head AND an 8X10 cab for $500.

I think part of the reason the low end isn't getting thru is because of the BC Rich. I'm not completely satisfied with the pickups on em and it lacks and on board EQ like my Ibanez BTB. So any suggestions as to whether or not I should go the 15" Route to help with my bottom end? I'm thinking about swapping the pickups on the Rich soon as well but I'd rather ask here because my experience with bass gear is limited to what I've got. I come from a guitarist background and only recently acquired the bass setup that I've got.

Any help is appreciated! I'm open to all input and all creative suggestions.

Kwesi · #2 10-25-2010, 02:27 PM

ugh... this again.

A 15 does not guarantee more low-end all it does when added to a 410 is limit how loud you can get and makle the rig more prone to blow... something. Get another 410.

Tell all your friends so they don't come here and ask the same question

AciDBatH666 · #3 10-25-2010, 02:29 PM

Sorry man. I try to do lots of research on this kinda stuff before I ask because I know it's out there, but it's difficult at times to sort through so many threads to find specifically what I need.

Thanks for the insight

dokazaado · #4 10-25-2010, 02:35 PM

I've always found the solution for more low end frequency response is more power.

Infidelity · #5 10-25-2010, 02:36 PM

/facepalm

Kwesi · #6 10-25-2010, 02:38 PM

My personally philosophy when getting multiple cabs is to get two of the same cab unless you know for sure that you'll never use one without the other. This way the power is evenly distributed and the tone is consistent. All the SWR 410s that I've tried were awesome. Running should give you all the volume you want with plenty of low end.

AciDBatH666 · #7 10-25-2010, 02:42 PM

Thanks man. I appreciate it since I've apparently touched on a subject that's asked too much and couldn't find a definitive answer. It's why I hesitate to even ask because I'd rather not welcome the flaming.
Like I said, my experience is with guitar gear and I don't fully comprehend all of the dynamics with bass gear. It's a completely different animal that I only know so much about the gear that I've got.

audiomitch · #8 10-25-2010, 02:46 PM

IMO, 4X10s can get muddy by themselves. Maybe he wasn't hearing the bass because of muddyness? If you can borrow a 2X15 cab it might be worth experimenting by itself or both.

billfitzmaurice · #9 10-25-2010, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Infidelity

/facepalm

You mean this?

Quote:

Originally Posted by AciDBatH666

Thanks man. I appreciate it since I've apparently touched on a subject that's asked too much and couldn't find a definitive answer. .

This same question is asked, and answered, at about a 3 day interval. A 1x15 goes no lower, nor as loud as, a 4x10, so if you need more than what one 4x10 will give add another 4x10.

steamthief · #10 10-25-2010, 02:49 PM

What are your amp settings? If you're scooping all your mids (which Metallica's guitars seem to do,) you're losing most of what makes the bass audible. Low mids are your friend!

AciDBatH666 · #11 10-25-2010, 02:55 PM

Gain is set pretty high, volume around 6.... I've messed with the EQ a bit to see how it comes across by tinkering with it. I've tried a full scoop, boosted the bass and low mids, and tried putting the mids all at dead even with the bass/treble boosted.

With the BC rich, it just doesn't seem to get as much punch thru. The Ibanez BTB has a warmer thick low end on it and comes out sounding better.
Our guitarists have a lot of gain and it mucks up my sound a bit, but I can still get thru. We'll see. I'm going to try to borrow some friends' gear around us (We're in a storage unit and there's about 5-6 other bands that all practice in the same storage facility.)

gregwatts2008 · #12 10-25-2010, 02:59 PM

My 2 cents:
Forget the 15", a good 4x10 will give you ALL the bottom you need.
More Power is always good.
Your sound will only sound as good as the weakest link. If you play a $300 bass thru a $5000 rig, it will only sound like a $300 bass. Kwesi is right, SWR Goliath series are awesome cabs and 1 is enough unless you are playing stadiums, then I would get 2.
Start by getting someone with a high end bass to plug in to your rig and see what that does. For me, I like GK RB series. The 1001 RB II with a 4x10 Goliath cab is enough for almost any venue. Just sayin..........

AciDBatH666 · #13 10-25-2010, 03:04 PM

That's part of the reason I wanted to go with the GK setup on Craigslist. The cab in that sale is a Gold Line GLX 8 x 10, which I've actually found the reviews on it to be kinda mehhhhhhhh.... But I figured the head AND the cab for the price is a pretty good deal.
Worst case scenario, I can do like you're suggesting and use the head with my current 4X10 cab and sell or throw the 8X10 cab in our storage unit and have two setups and just move the head to and from.

steamthief · #14 10-25-2010, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AciDBatH666

Gain is set pretty high, volume around 6.... I've messed with the EQ a bit to see how it comes across by tinkering with it. I've tried a full scoop, boosted the bass and low mids, and tried putting the mids all at dead even with the bass/treble boosted.

With the BC rich, it just doesn't seem to get as much punch thru. The Ibanez BTB has a warmer thick low end on it and comes out sounding better.
Our guitarists have a lot of gain and it mucks up my sound a bit, but I can still get thru. We'll see. I'm going to try to borrow some friends' gear around us (We're in a storage unit and there's about 5-6 other bands that all practice in the same storage facility.)

I'd suggest setting the bass and treble flat and boosting only the mids, you may be fighting the guitars for the same frequencies, especially if they're going with a mid-scooped sound. It may sound wrong playing solo, but yet fit in the band mix.

Also, have you tried raising the pickup height on the BC Rich? If it's active, maybe it needs a new battery?

JimmyM · #15 10-25-2010, 03:07 PM

dude, skimp on anything but the cab. you don't have to get the world's greatest cab, but don't go so cheap that you make the problem worse. gk makes a lot of really good cabs. the goldline cabs aren't them.

AciDBatH666 · #16 10-25-2010, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steamthief

I'd suggest setting the bass and treble flat and boosting only the mids, you may be fighting the guitars for the same frequencies, especially if they're going with a mid-scooped sound. It may sound wrong playing solo, but yet fit in the band mix.

Also, have you tried raising the pickup height on the BC Rich? If it's active, maybe it needs a new battery?

Yeah I'll move the pickups around to see if it helps.
Guitar-wise, I think they're going boosted lows, highs to about 6, and mids completely cut out. At least that's how I used to have my guitar setup for old school metal. Get lots of gain and crunch out of it.
Our lead guitarist's setup is pretty hard to hear over at times. He's playing on a custom one he just finished building with a neck that he's working on getting a patent on. The frets basically float and there's basically nothing to push the frets down on. Kind of like a scalloped fretboard but even more extreme. Not like that really matters in this instance, but it's still fun to talk about. lol

Queg · #17 10-25-2010, 03:55 PM

Old school Metallica? If you're not already using an overdrive/distortion pedal, try that before buying more gear. It will help even out your sound and you'll sit better in the mix. Many of them tend to boost mids, and the natural compression on transients will help you get more volume out of your rig without farting out. For the record, Cliff used one...

shadow_FIX · #18 10-25-2010, 03:58 PM

Lol..

You gave the "Cliff" notes about your Metallica cover band.

*tehee*

AciDBatH666 · #19 12-04-2010, 11:11 PM

Just a heads up from an update today. FINALLY got to our drummer's other band's storage unit and got a couple of hours of jamming in. A couple of months ago I purchased a Sansamp bass driver DI after hearing the suggestion to throw some distortion in there. I'm in the market for an 8X10 and a GK 1001RB, but wanted to at least crank out on my 4X10 again before I invest in such a loud rig.

This Sansamp is pure awesome. I cranked my EQ on my SWR Workmans4004 a little bit on the plus side across the board except for the treble and had my Sansamp boost the bass and presence a little bit. The drive is only turned up 1/4 of the way.
Made my drummer now tell me that I'm ALL that he can hear. It was pretty awesome.
We were crammed in that practice space and I was standing behind my setup and I could still hear it pretty well.

Keep in mind I couldn't tweak my setup with this pedal until we finally got into a practice space because I live in some apartments, where I can't even use a combo amp because it would just penetrate the walls no matter how low I'd put it. I practice with headphones 99% of the time in my apartment.

BogeyBass · #20 12-05-2010, 12:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AciDBatH666

I cranked my EQ on my SWR Workmans4004 a little bit on the plus side across the board except for the treble and had my Sansamp boost the bass and presence a little bit. The drive is only turned up 1/4 of the way.
Made my drummer now tell me that I'm ALL that he can hear. It was pretty awesome.

You should be good with the 4x10 if you really want a 8x10, just wait for another matching SWR 4x10 to pop up and buy it.
its better to go with all matching drivers, in whatever combo you want such as all 10inch or all 15inch. That cheap 8x10 thing you were talking about is garbage forget it. Also Don't buy tiny little single 15 inch cabs, they are to small, usually have cheap drivers. And are the main drive behind the whole idea that 15's don't add lowend. A very large 2 x 15 cab with high quality matching drivers will crush just about anything.

Otherwise the problem might of had alot to do with your playing/picking style and the quality of your bass and pickups.

the only solution is what your are finding, which is boost the heck out of your EQ , to make up for whatever is lacking.

Adding moderate distortion will improve presence in the midbass and midrange. The highend is boosted as well but gets easily lost and blends with the guitars and drummers cymbals. Most distortion pedals use alot of highpass filtering to smooth the distortion. Most are designed for guitar so the highpass can very high. Such as a tube screamer which is about 700hz. Which is almost useless for bass without alot of EQ to bring back the bass. Not sure what the sansamp is at, but most likely the highpass filtering shifts depending on whatever "emulation" or mode your using. Finding a good bass distortion can be a challenge because of this common " bassdrop" caused by the pedals highpass filter. For a really aggressive metal bass tone, some guys are more than willing to drag around a heavy tube amp. The tube "growl" or any other cheesy word used to describe natural tube distortion. Is unbeatable and outperforms any pedal.