50hz vz 60hz

[cliff78]

I just bought a markbass minimark with a rating of 230v @ 50hz here in Dubai. If i move to the Philippines, would I be able to use it. The Philippines has 220v @ 60hz.

[will33]

Should be able to, yes. I'd check with Markbass to be sure. The "hz" is the cycles their electric system runs on. The same transformer should be ok with the 220 or 230 volts.

[cliff78]

Originally Posted by will33

Should be able to, yes. I'd check with Markbass to be sure. The "hz" is the cycles their electric system runs on. The same transformer should be ok with the 220 or 230 volts.

Thanks Will. The in-house technician from where I bought it from said it was ok. Can anyone else chime in on this. I just want to ba absolutely sure.

[BbbyBld]

It'll be fine.

A 50Hz power transformer has a slightly thicker core than 60Hz so it won't saturate running at the lower frequency.

If you run a 60Hz transformer at 50Hz...that's where you can run into problems.

[seamonkey]

Markbass being SMPS it has a pretty small power transformer. Myself, I would just use it. But - Their FAQ is specific enough that you'd better get it in writing from Markbass if you ever have a warranty problem:

http://www.markbass.it/support.php

Can the voltage be changed if I move to another country?

Unfortunately, due to homologation issues, the voltage may not be changed without having the amp reapproved for electrical safety. If you're just traveling internationally with your amp, we recommend using power transformers, which are generally available from backline companies and can also be purchased inexpensively.

Can I use my Markbass amp in countries with different voltages?

No! Your amp/combo was manufactured to be sold and used in the country of purchase, and is factory preset to that country's voltage. If you use it in a country with a different voltage without using a power converter, it will not work and may be seriously damaged.

[ThisBass]

Originally Posted by BbbyBld

It'll be fine.

If you run a 60Hz transformer at 50Hz...that's where you can run into problems.

But Ampeg did it always.

[BbbyBld]

If the amp has a switching supply, it's still perfectly fine.

But Ampeg did it always.

That's why I said "can". The transformer has to be designed for it.

[will33]

Originally Posted by seamonkey

Markbass being SMPS it has a pretty small power transformer. Myself, I would just use it. But - Their FAQ is specific enough that you'd better get it in writing from Markbass if you ever have a warranty problem:

http://www.markbass.it/support.php

Can the voltage be changed if I move to another country?

Unfortunately, due to homologation issues, the voltage may not be changed without having the amp reapproved for electrical safety. If you're just traveling internationally with your amp, we recommend using power transformers, which are generally available from backline companies and can also be purchased inexpensively.

Can I use my Markbass amp in countries with different voltages?

No! Your amp/combo was manufactured to be sold and used in the country of purchase, and is factory preset to that country's voltage. If you use it in a country with a different voltage without using a power converter, it will not work and may be seriously damaged.

Good point.

It should work fine, but get it in writing.....just because.

I didn't even think of warranty issues. I've never had to use a warranty with any amp I've ever had.

[Handyman]

Originally Posted by seamonkey

http://www.markbass.it/support.php

Can the voltage be changed if I move to another country?

Unfortunately, due to homologation issues, the voltage may not be changed without having the amp reapproved for electrical safety.

Translation: We cheaped out on our SMPS, and unlike many of our competitors products, will only work with a fixed voltage.

This is not an issue for the vast majority of customers, but Genz Benz amps, for example, can work with power from just about anywhere.

[ThisBass]

Originally Posted by BbbyBld

If the amp has a switching supply, it's still perfectly fine.



That's why I said "can". The transformer has to be designed for it.

Designed for 55Hz?

[Mehve]

You can get away with less iron in a transformer designed for 60Hz, that's all. So it's possible that trying to run it at only 50Hz could put it over the limit and bad things will happen. But if the unit is built heavily enough for 50Hz, it's quite likely that it won't mind getting 60Hz instead (Likely, not 100% guaranteed).

[ThisBass]

Originally Posted by Mehve

You can get away with less iron in a transformer designed for 60Hz,
that's all.

That's right for steady VA

Originally Posted by Mehve

So it's possible that trying to run it at only 50Hz could put it over the limit and bad things will happen.

current is increasing slightly, whereas VA is slightly reduced.
But I would not bother about it.

Originally Posted by Mehve

But if the unit is built heavily enough for 50Hz, it's quite likely that it won't mind getting 60Hz instead (Likely, not 100% guaranteed).

That means the transformer is designed for 50Hz.
That means we are talking about a 50Hz transformer, but not 60Hz.

[megafiddle]

Switching power supplies do not have 50 or 60 Hz transformers. The main line feeds
a high voltage DC supply directly (rectifier and filter). The actual step down transformer
operates at the high switching frequency. That's why it can be so small.

[ThisBass]

Originally Posted by megafiddle

Switching power supplies do not have 50 or 60 Hz transformers. The main line feeds
a high voltage DC supply directly (rectifier and filter). The actual step down transformer
operates at the high switching frequency. That's why it can be so small.

That's right but, I did not hooked up the transformers VA capacity vers. frequency.

BTW SMPS is a very old technique in industries in the meanwhile (since early 70's as far as I know).

[agedhorse]

Originally Posted by ThisBass

That's right for steady VA

current is increasing slightly, whereas VA is slightly reduced.
But I would not bother about it.

That means the transformer is designed for 50Hz.
That means we are talking about a 50Hz transformer, but not 60Hz.

In addition to additional iron in a 50Hz transformer, there will be additional turns required in the primary (which result in more turns in the secondary to maintain equal ratio). The required turns per volt of a primary changes with frequency. Failure to design for this can lead to an overheated transformer (even at idle) and one hell of a mess.

[megafiddle]

Originally Posted by ThisBass

That's right but, I did not hooked up the transformers VA capacity vers. frequency.

BTW SMPS is a very old technique in industries in the meanwhile (since early 70's as far as I know).

Yes, I was just talking in general, no particular post.

[seamonkey]

Originally Posted by ThisBass

That's right but, I did not hooked up the transformers VA capacity vers. frequency.

BTW SMPS is a very old technique in industries in the meanwhile (since early 70's as far as I know).

Way farther back than that. Old car radio's had vibrator things that essentially worked like an SMPS. Except a relay coil and contacts instead of silicon. Much lower frequency but same idea.

[ThisBass]

Some words to the transformer purposes.
Some purpuses like welding demand the full power (100% at constant number) for very long time cycles.
So there would be a good chance at long term average to overheat the system and burn off the wire.

By the other hand audio program signals demand full power at the signal peak transients only, so for most audio purposes the long term average power is significant below max. transformer power.

A good bet is to calculate not more then 1/3 for long term average but, heavily overdriven power amps is a different animal of course (like welding or powering an electric motor).


Stupid question:
Transformer power differs depending line frequency. 50Hz amps (EU models) and 60Hz amps (US models) very often used the same transformer. But output power of the amp differs as well by nearly appro 8-10%.
I'm wondering that manufacturers output power ratings where always just the same for US and export EU models.

[agedhorse]

50Hz transformer is a worst case design, somewhat overkill for 60Hz markets. The transfer efficiency may be higher in the 60Hz operation though.

Power handling of a transformer is different than designing for 50Hz operation. 50Hz operation places different no load conditions on the electromagnetic circuit.

[play4sanity]

From the Markbass Minimark manual:

POWER REQUIREMENT 100V; 120V; 230V; 240V 50/60Hz
(Version factory preset inside the equipment)
Markbass apparatuses are manufactured to be sold and used in the
country of purchase, and are factory preset to that country’s voltage.
Due to homologation issues, the voltage may not be changed.

and ....

POWER SUPPLY
Special Markbass Digital Power Supply

(Voltage is factory preset according to region of sale)

The power supply appears to be an external unit that is different for each place it's sold. Bad news - it's a crap shoot as to whether it will work or not. Good news - if it does die it will be easier to replace. Good luck with whatever you decide.