50w Bassman? Over SVT VR?

JosephFourier · #1 12-11-2011, 04:46 PM

Greetings TB, I was wondering if you could help me out a bit, or at least point me in the right direction.

My background: I currently play a 200 watt Acoustic combo, and have decided that its about time for me to upgrade. I like my Acoustic, but I am looking for a little more power and control over my sound. I play all over the board when it comes to styles, mainly like jazz and funk, but I like to have a little grit on the top.

I have heard and played a few different amps, and I had decided that I liked the popular SVT. My plan was to get a 810e cab and use an amp belonging to my drummer for a bit until I find a SVT VR (or maybe a CL) that I like.

However, today a noticed this little piece go up on my local craigslist and I am just a sucker for vintage gear
Vintage 1969 Fender Bassman Tube 50w Head/Cab
I have never played one, but I used to play in a reggae band with a bassist who had one of these (I'm not sure of the exact model/wattage) and boy did it thump.

Now, given that I know very very little about all this, what sorts of things should I look at in terms of differences between a SVT VR with a 810e, the 1969 50w Bassman with a 2x15, and the Acoustic b200 I am running now? I have scoured the boards but I haven't found a direct comparison between these two amps before. Will the bassman just not measure up to the SVT in terms of raw power? It is rated for much less wattage, but I am awfullly ignorant when it comes to these things and it seems like there might be more to it than "300w is 6 times louder than 50w end of story".

I think I would like to go try it out, but was hoping I could arm myself with some good old fashioned talkbass knowledge before I do.

Thanks all.

christw · #2 12-11-2011, 05:01 PM

I think that's far too much for what that is. I would skip that mess entirely. I don't particularly trust that guy knew everything he was doing and even if he did, it isn't worth it for that price. It won't be any louder of a replacement for your Acoustic.

Speaking of keeping costs low, I'm not sure of your geographic location, but the TB classifieds are great! A member selling a 100w tube Fender PA head, perfect for bass, for $150 out of the Kentucky area last I looked. There was also a 50w Bassman for $300 (or less?) shipped last I looked.

rodl2005 · #3 12-11-2011, 05:04 PM

300w isn't 6x louder, but is 6x more powerful. Imo a 50w Bassman would struggle to keep up in a normal to loud band setting-ymmv.
I used the 100w Bassman for yrs & I like them & I found that had enough headroom for most gigs.
I'd be looking for at least 100w Bassman, but, really, if you can handle the weight, SVT will do it all. Quiet & loud. They have a volume control & imo sound great at low vol & better at high vol

rodl2005 · #4 12-11-2011, 05:08 PM

Yes, definitely. take Chris' advice & grab TB'er Sammyfallen's Fender PA 100w! Such a bargain! I'm even considering it & I'm in Aus.
They work great for bass.

christw · #5 12-11-2011, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rodl2005

Yes, definitely. take Chris' advice & grab TB'er Sammyfallen's Fender PA 100w! Such a bargain! I'm even considering it & I'm in Aus.
They work great for bass.

Don't think I'm not considering it.

I've met him in person for a deal before! We need a PA head here, we have 1 working guitar amp left, and I could run the channels together for an OD! I just have no expendable cash until January!

will33 · #6 12-11-2011, 05:46 PM

I really like the bassmans tone at lower volumes but if that's supposed to be your main gigging rig, you'd come up short in volume in quite a few situations.

The SVT and 810 on the other hand is a full big stage loud rig. You may play some places...if you play jazz, most places.....where it's way louder than you need.

You can turn the SVT down....you can only turn the Fender up so much.

That price is a bit high even with a working cab, the old Fender speakers weren't very good for bass. When buying old tube amps, figure a trip to a tech for a checkup and possibly cap job...$150 give or take.....into your price unless you're buying it from a real tech or it has documentation of work done by a real tech recently. Once tuned up and given a clean bill of health, they're at least as reliable as anything out there.

walterw · #7 12-11-2011, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JosephFourier

I like my Acoustic, but I am looking for a little more power and control over my sound. I play all over the board when it comes to styles, mainly like jazz and funk, but I like to have a little grit on the top.

"jazz and funk" usually imply a modern clean full-bandwidth tone. a 50-watt bassman head is gonna give you a grungy garage-rock sound at anything over supper-club volume. you won't get grit "on top", you'll get distortion everywhere.

an SVT will kick butt for everything except your back and your wallet.

soulman969 · #8 12-11-2011, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by walterw

"jazz and funk" usually imply a modern clean full-bandwidth tone. a 50-watt bassman head is gonna give you a grungy garage-rock sound at anything over supper-club volume. you won't get grit "on top", you'll get distortion everywhere.

an SVT will kick butt for everything except your back and your wallet.

+1. Exactly. I played a 50w Bassman for about 6 mos. and as soon as we played anything larger than very small room it was useless. To much volume and the speaker will begin to fart out. The SVT is a monster and one of the classic tube bass amps. Buy the SVT if you deal with it.

Jim Carr · #9 12-12-2011, 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JosephFourier

...I used to play in a reggae band with a bassist who had one of these (I'm not sure of the exact model/wattage) and boy did it thump.

Those Sunn Cabs have a lot of bottom, especially when driven by the right size Sunn head. A 50 watt bassman driving it's old 15's parked in a cab they were not designed for seems less than idea.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JosephFourier

Now, given that I know very very little about all this, what sorts of things should I look at in terms of differences between a SVT VR with a 810e, the 1969 50w Bassman with a 2x15, and the Acoustic b200 I am running now?

A very tall order, especially since we all notice different things when our tone goals are different. My advice is to try them all several times. One will call your name.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JosephFourier

...Will the bassman just not measure up to the SVT in terms of raw power?

The SVT amp will bury the Bassman amp.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JosephFourier

It is rated for much less wattage, but I am awfullly ignorant when it comes to these things and it seems like there might be more to it than "300w is 6 times louder than 50w end of story"...

There is! 300 watts is NOT 6 times louder, it is just 6 times as many watts. If you want to double the loudness of a 50 watt amp, you need to start with about 10 times the power, i.e, 500 watts. But that is another discussion.

Downunderwonder · #10 12-12-2011, 02:07 AM

Yeah, I'm blowing away my apartment with a 50W tube amp, I can play nice quiet jazz gigs with it but but try to rock it with drums and guitars and it suddenly loses its authority.

Jim's absolutely right about the ten x power to double volume, however it fails to compute when my solid state trace elliot running same cab does it effortlessly and it's only maybe 180W at 8 Ohm.

By rights the trace should only be very slightly louder on clean, yet the 50W tube amp is going all grindy on me when I'm wanting more oomph.

Jim Carr · #11 12-12-2011, 10:05 AM

Tube watts?

**Chef** · #12 12-12-2011, 10:15 AM

Comparing the 50 watt Bassman and a 300 watt SVT-VR...you just can't.
a 50 watt head, that really makes more like 35, and is 40+ years old...to a current issue 300 watt monster that will crush small cars...it's just not fair.

They're good for completely different things..
I'd vote for the new svt-vr; every time.

The WideBody · #13 12-12-2011, 11:56 AM

i have that head, but with the matching 215 cab. the cab is the weak link of my rig. the cab is just too small and doesn't go real low. i cannot comment on the cab the guy is selling.

what i can comment on is the power of this little 50w head. i cannot compare it to an svt, but my head has been properly maintained by a very good technician. it is clean all the way up the dial. i am not a tech so i cannot speak definatively about the distortion that others talk about, but it is probably from components that are out of spec or about to die. where it is volume wise vs the svt, yes it makes sense that the svt is louder, but doesn't the old saying promote the idea that 5 times the wattage gives you twice the dbs? so it should be twice as loud. but what does that mean to you or i? i had my bassman rig at my buddies house for a jam. it was on two and it was shaking the house and my buddies wife was pissed off. we had three guitars but no drums and i had power for days.

Pilgrim · #14 12-12-2011, 12:08 PM

The Bassman is a nice amp, and it will get reasonably loud with an efficient cab. (I have a '67 myself.) The rest depends on the volume the rest of the band plays. Safest thing is to get a modern head with more wattage for gigs, and use the Bassman for practice. If the Ampeg is 300W, then for all-around use go with it. You can always turn it down.

rtslinger · #15 12-12-2011, 12:10 PM

I would have to say for your music go with the Ampeg

Alex1984 · #16 12-12-2011, 12:11 PM

My vote goes to the SVT. With an efficient cab you might still get decent volume at 50W. But it's just too hard for the Bassman to compete.

Baird6869 · #17 12-12-2011, 12:59 PM

I have owned both (my Bassman was a combo) and the SVT completely crushes the Bassman.

If I still owned my Bassman, I would use it exclusively for guitar and maybe guitar/bass recording. Great sounding amp though.

Even paired with the big Ampeg cabs I used to play it through back in the day, the Bassman just didn't have the headroom of the SVT. Small gigs... it will be fine paired with a 2x10 cab, but with a loud drummer and/or loud guitarist or in a big room, it just doesn't have the power. Even with the Sunn cabs, I doubt you would be happy.

The Bassman also may not weigh 85lbs (like the SVT), but it isn't a tiny micro amp either.

Lastly, if you ultimately go SVT, make sure you have a 4ohm cab or 2 8ohm cabs.

s_mcsleazy · #18 12-12-2011, 05:29 PM

i think somthings up. i dont want to show off or talk about my bassman 50

isnt this one of the 7 signs of the talk bass appocolypse along with "behndy giving up pedals" "bill fitzmaures not knowing the awnser to somthing driver related"?

LGT · #19 12-12-2011, 08:05 PM

Mcsleazy, do you have any soundclips or video of your bassman? All your posts have gotten me curious.

billfitzmaurice · #20 12-12-2011, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by s_mcsleazy

i think somthings up. i dont want to show off or talk about my bassman 50

isnt this one of the 7 signs of the talk bass appocolypse along with "behndy giving up pedals" "bill fitzmaures not knowing the awnser to somthing driver related"?

Says who?
Back in the day I found my 65 Bassman worked fine... when I ran it through eight twelves. Of course the twelves back then weren't what they are today.
I'm sure I could run one through a pair of horn loaded tens or twelves and it would be fine. But I prefer to only need to haul one twelve loaded cab, and to schlep an amp a quarter what the Bassman weighs.