700rbII Not cutting it for a neo 412

[GrinningMouth88]

So I'm not sure if anyone remembers my post about sweetwater not recommending a neo 412 for my 700rbII due to underpowering issues. First of all this is NOT intended to start another underpowering war. Now, a band I recently joined happened to have a neo 412 at their practice space from a previous bassist of an old band. This made me very excited since I FINALLY was able to see how it would sound before pulling the trigger on one myself. The first practice went well, the rig was plenty loud with tons of headroom (playing post-hardcore up against two halfstacks). The second practice........not so much, my 700rbII lit those speakers up like the fourth of july. We were okay for about an hour, then all of a sudden I couldn't get my amp to a loud volume without clipping, when it would clip you would hear a loud squealing and the speakers literally would light up like there was a light bulb behind them. Getting so fed up with this eternal search for equipment that works the way I want it to.

Settings on my amp at the time:

Volume - 11 o'clock
Contour - flat
Presence - 11 o'clock
Treble - 2 o'clock
Bass - 1 o'clock
High mid - 10 o'clock
Low mid - 10 o'clock
Boost - 11 o'clock
Woofer - 2 o'clock

As you can see, these are not unreasonable settings. So any opinions? Is my amp probably just messed up? Will they clip easier if you have them going into a cabinet that is rated WAY over what the amp's output is? Will I ever find a rig that is both reliable and powerful? Should I wave goodbye to gk, get an ampeg rig and call it a day? I just want to play music, I like to play loud music. I know some people don't, but I do. So what do I need. I'm not an idiot when it comes to this stuff but since I can't find a rig that works, I must be. Either that or I have an aura like an emp charge that takes out all electrical equipment I touch.

[Wes Whitmore]

Does the amp still have that same problem now? I would say that something is wrong with the amp. If you were working that amp where it was getting hot, it should have went thermal and shut off temporarily, not started malfuntioning.
Wes

[GrinningMouth88]

No, plugged it into a 15 and it was fine. It seemed to be more of a volume based issue. I forgot to add that I was running through a sansamp bddi, and when I turned it off the problem went away. However, it also made the rig not nearly loud enough, so when I went to dial the woofer on the amp up it started happening again. I've never seen speakers literally light up before, what causes that?

[wave rider]

I think the clip light is post EQ on the 700/1001, you may be overdriving the preamp.

Have you tried the pad button in? If an active bass, have you checked the battery?

Sounds like there is a light bulb in the cab, it is trying to protect the tweeter from that loud squealing. Are you running the cab full range or using the GK biamp method?

=wr=

[GrinningMouth88]

The pad button was in, and I have a passive bass with an active eq (schecter riot 4). The cab was being run in full range since I did not have the 4 way gk speakon or whatever, I was only using a normal 2 way speakon and i've heard to only run in full range if that's the case. I switched it to biamp for a minute just to see if I was mistaken but it didn't make a difference

[sigam68]

fwiw I play through this exact setup and my settings are pretty much the same at the moment with the volume and boost set at 2 o'clock with the cab running in bi amp mode using a gk cable. i primarly play with my pbass and it's all good and when i play with my warwick i play with the pad button in. i would like to say there may be something up with the amp.

[wave rider]

If I'm reading the diagram in the manual correctly, the clip light is before the volume knob and preamp (unlike my earlier observations) but I still think you may have overdriven the pre. Are you using an AC adapter for the Sansamp or a battery?

When you say Contour flat, is that turned all the way off? I'd try pad off, Boost a little higher.

=wr=

[GrinningMouth88]

Yes, contour off. I have my next practice on monday so I'll try your suggestion. It probably is something wrong with my amp, of course there is always something wrong with my amp or cabs or both. Just a question, wouldn't turning the pad off and boosting higher just make the problem worse?

[poorbassist15]

Hmm. Problem with the amp?

Doesn't the cab have a light bulb in it so you don't blow it up?

[GrinningMouth88]

I certainly hope that it was just a light bulb, you are probably right.

[wave rider]

If you leave the Sansamp out of the equation, you may need the pad off.

I sometimes use a VT pedal in front of my 1001 but can barely turn up the gain on the pedal if I want a similar output to my passive basses.

I should not give *loud* advice since I'm a hobbyist and not gigging. Seems like georgestrings (among others) gigs the 700 and would have more stage tested advice.

I can't remember anyone writing about the 700 not being loud enough which is why your situation puzzles me...

=wr=

[jelwood]

The neo cab has a light bulb that takes the extra power and saves your tweeter from blowing. It was doing it's job and props to GK for making a good design that worked and saved you from having to replace the horn in a cab you don't own

The 700RB-II doesn't have current limiters. When you cause your amp to clip like that the amp is tapping into a huge power reserve in an attempt to maintain speaker control-and you're still asking too much-and the bulb is taking that extra power. There is nothing wrong with your amp, it sounds like it's just fine, putting out that many balls.

Solution 1: get a bigger power reserve (amp)
Solution 2: Get a second neo 412
Solution 3: STOP PLAYING SO LOUDLY

[ljazz]

The clip light on the head is at the input, prior to the vol control. It's only letting you know if your clipping at the input.

I run the 700rbII with similar settings (except more boost, more mids, less bass and treble, and I use the HMS) through a 212 and 112. No problems at all. I've only tested the 412 with mine, but I saw no problems. The head can drive that cab easily and safely, with no problems.

I'm not an expert with the electronics, but it sounds like something in the cab's crossover is screwed up.

I would try running the HMS, and see if using the crossover in the head clears up the issue. Or, try setting the cab to bi-amp, but don't engage the woofer hi-cut, and let the 12's handle everything.

The suggestion made to use 2 412's is a no-go with the 700rb, because the cabs are 4 ohms.

[GrinningMouth88]

what is the hms?

[B-string]

Originally Posted by GrinningMouth88

what is the hms?

H(orn) M(anagement) S(ystem). The G-K speakon will use the "tweeter" amp to drive the horn (pre boost) 50 watts at 8 ohms, 75 watts at 4 ohms.

[GrinningMouth88]

oh, duh. so basically i need to buy a gk speakon. That is the only time bi-amping with a gk cab will work right? Otherwise you run it full range if it's a normal speakon.

[ljazz]

I'm not sure if it will take the horn out of the signal if you use a regular plug and the cab set to biamp..... try it.

[hyp.spec]

Sounds like something is wrong with the head or the cab because you should be having no problems....

I run a 700rb-II with an 'peg 810 and I'm ridiculously loud if I put the bass at the settings you posted... and yes... I like loud too!

[Hopkins]

Originally Posted by ljazz

I'm not sure if it will take the horn out of the signal if you use a regular plug and the cab set to biamp..... try it.

Try this, get rid of the tweeter should fix your problem.

[Thunder Pulse]

Originally Posted by ljazz

I'm not sure if it will take the horn out of the signal if you use a regular plug and the cab set to biamp..... try it.

It does, I've verified it with my own GK cabs.