Accugroove or other Hifi-s for OD bass signal?

jimmyjames77 · #1 05-08-2010, 05:36 PM

Hey all had a couple questions about the Accugroove line of cabs, and "hi-fi" cabs in general, for bass signal that has a pretty girthy overdriven sound. I'm sure I'd have to turn the horn off (IF you can on the Accugrooves) of course but set like that how does an overdriven signal sound? I like a dirty sound that is thick and clear, but no shrillness please.

Thanks for the info all.
Jim.

lo-freq · #2 05-08-2010, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimmyjames77

Hey all had a couple questions about the Accugroove line of cabs, and "hi-fi" cabs in general, for bass signal that has a pretty girthy overdriven sound. I'm sure I'd have to turn the horn off (IF you can on the Accugrooves) of course but set like that how does an overdriven signal sound? I like a dirty sound that is thick and clear, but no shrillness please.

Thanks for the info all.
Jim.

The Accugroove cabs are somewhat unusual (I guess Acme's are the closest as far as the treble response), in that they do not use bullet, horn, or compression type tweeters.
As a result, the treble is softer or much less bright than other types.
As a result, they should work fine with most types of OD -- of course, it depends on your personal tone goals.
The original Accugroove cabs had level controls for both midrange and tweeters, but at a certain point they were dropped from the design.
I don't know if you could special order one with the attenuator option, but even if you could, it would probably be a very pricey option (just as a guess).
If you have an amp and/or bass guitar that has decent EQ capabilities, you shouldn't need an attenuator with these cabs anyway.

johnk_10 · #3 05-08-2010, 06:13 PM

on my accugroove el whappo jr. (the newest version w/o attenuators), it sounds great with either a super clean or a super dirty signal, which is very much unlike every other cab that i've ever had that has tweeters. the textile tweeters in the whappo jr. are not harsh or brittle sounding at all, whereas when using distortion with most conventional tweeters, all i get is an ugly sounding 'splatter' from them.

autofile · #4 05-08-2010, 06:17 PM

I use an Accugroove Tri 115L and 112L with my Morgan MP200.
When I use the over drive on the amp it sounds mighty good to me!

Bassist30 · #5 05-08-2010, 07:05 PM

I can't say anything bad about accugroove. Amazing cabinet. The Jr is my personal favorite.

jimmyjames77 · #6 05-09-2010, 10:02 PM

That's some great info guys! Any other opinions? The jr sounds like an anomoly. So even with a way distorted "lemmy from motorhead" type sound the Jr would be a winner??? That amazes me.

MysticMichael · #7 05-09-2010, 11:41 PM

To me, running heavy distortion though a hi-fi cab is like putting sauerkraut on a bowl of super-premium gourmet ice cream: ya might like the taste of sauerkraut, but you should use it on kielbasa instead - because it just obliterates the pure, sweet taste of the ice cream...

MM

bongomania · #8 05-09-2010, 11:50 PM

While I like your simile, some overdrives have a particularly sweet harmonic texture to them, and that texture can be lost when using a less-refined, more "brute rock" cab, or when turning down the highs on the amp to eliminate harshness. So while I wouldn't say everyone needs a hi-fi cab for OD tones, I do think a hi-fi cab with very smooth, mellow, non-harsh handling of the highs would be a great choice for the more "rich and nuanced" OD tones.

If we take it to hard-rock crunch/distortion territory then my argument falls apart.

That's when a more brutish cab, and turning down the treble knob, is appropriate.

johnk_10 · #9 05-10-2010, 12:36 AM

i think that another cool way to get distortion with a bass would be to use a dedicated 1x12 or 2x12 as a top cab with a celestion vintage 30 in it with a crossover in it so that the lows (say below 200hz) wouldn't blow it. that way you could also get a bit of creamy speaker distortion, which to me, is a really valid and 'non-artificial' distorted tone.
when i saw Stanley Clarke live a few months ago, he a had a tweed fender champ that was mic'd for his distorted bass tones, blended with his clean big rig, and it sounded great.

KJung · #10 05-10-2010, 03:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MysticMichael

To me, running heavy distortion though a hi-fi cab is like putting sauerkraut on a bowl of super-premium gourmet ice cream: ya might like the taste of sauerkraut, but you should use it on kielbasa instead - because it just obliterates the pure, sweet taste of the ice cream...

MM

I agree here, but the term hi fi is relatively meaningless. If you are using the term 'hi fi' as we do in the bass amplification category, that usually means deep lows, polite mids, and a very extrended upper treble response, that would not in any way describe most (or any) of the Accugroove cabs to me.

The nature of the top end of the Accugroove cabs is very organic and natural, and seems to work quite nicely with more classic or distorted tone goals.

To the OP, many of us would not in any way describe the Accugroove cabs as hi fi, based on how most use that descriptor to describe bass cabs. They are organic and fat, and very smooth (some would say 'darkly voiced) up top. They sound more like a very good one way cab than a two way cab with a traditional horn tweeter. That of course can be a huge positive or a huge negative, depending on your tone goals.

The primary point, those little soft dome tweeters don't work like high SPL horn type tweeters, and you wouldn't have any issue IMO and IME.

jimmyjames77 · #11 05-10-2010, 12:09 PM

Some very good opinions. Keep em' coming. The more info and opinions the easier it is to see the more broad over view of what I myself am trying to accomplish. Everyone sees/hears things different and the more opinions I get the easier it is to put together the puzzle IME.
Jim.

christoph h. · #12 05-10-2010, 03:11 PM

I have used distortion through Accugroove cabs (Tri112L + Whappo JR) and it has worked very well.

Fuzzbass · #13 05-10-2010, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MysticMichael

To me, running heavy distortion though a hi-fi cab is like putting sauerkraut on a bowl of super-premium gourmet ice cream: ya might like the taste of sauerkraut, but you should use it on kielbasa instead - because it just obliterates the pure, sweet taste of the ice cream...

MM

Translation: "crappy tone doesn't deserve a good speaker".

Obviously you don't like distorted bass tones, so I'm not sure why you are advising the OP. The fact is that a good quality speaker cab is useful for any kind of bass tone. For OD it can be desirable to have a tweeter control, but if Ken is correct (and I'm sure he is) that Accugroove cabs are "dark", then they would likely work well with OD.

johnk_10 · #14 05-10-2010, 05:42 PM

IMO, judging by my El whappo Jr., i wouldn't call accugroove cabs 'dark'. i would just say that they aren't 'hyped' in the high end like so many other 2 and 3 way cabs, especially those with a horn tweeter.

lo-freq · #15 05-10-2010, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnk_10

IMO, judging by my El whappo Jr., i wouldn't call accugroove cabs 'dark'. i would just say that they aren't 'hyped' in the high end like so many other 2 and 3 way cabs, especially those with a horn tweeter.

I think the closest to dark was the Tri 210.

Most Accugroove cabs are just polite in the higher midrange and up (and yes, to johnk_10's point, a lot of horn tweeters are just meaness if not turned almost off).

MysticMichael · #16 05-10-2010, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fuzzbass

Translation: "crappy tone doesn't deserve a good speaker".

Obviously you don't like distorted bass tones, so I'm not sure why you are advising the OP. The fact is that a good quality speaker cab is useful for any kind of bass tone. For OD it can be desirable to have a tweeter control, but if Ken is correct (and I'm sure he is) that Accugroove cabs are "dark", then they would likely work well with OD.

What I'm actually saying is that most distortion I've heard doesn't require an expensive, hi-fi cab to reproduce it - in which case the sonic advantages of a hi-fi cab are generally wasted. And the sound of a really good hi-fi cab is so good on its own, that I wouldn't want to mask it with distortion - or with anything else that would cover up the natural sound.

For a more refined, high-end OD/distortion, a hi-fi cab may be worth the expense. I just haven't heard much OD/distortion that I would characterize as refined or high-end...

MM

Fuzzbass · #17 05-10-2010, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MysticMichael

And the sound of a really good hi-fi cab is so good on its own, that I wouldn't want to mask it with distortion - or with anything else that would cover up the natural sound.

As I said, you don't like distortion. Not sure why you're here.

jimmyjames77 · #18 05-10-2010, 09:37 PM

To some an overdriven sound is just as important, if not more so, as a great clean sound, and finding the right OD tone is just as important. Just because it's distorted that doesn't mean that it is inferior or need any less "coixing" out of the tone chain. It seems that some look down on the OD users I guess. I'm in a trio, I need to cover all the sonic ground I can.
I guess this is what rock guitarists felt like when the jazz guitarists first heard them?

JimmyM · #19 05-10-2010, 09:49 PM

mystic michael is wholly entitled to his opinion, even if it's wrong

i love distortion on a bass through a really good line array pa,
so i see no reason why a whoppo or whappo jr wouldn't be fantastic for distortion. however, i don't like it with all the extra high end, so killing everything past 4 or 5k would be a must for me. of course, killing everything past 4-5k is my m.o. whether clean or dirty, so i could see where someone else would dig all the high end distortion. just not my thing.

Bassist30 · #20 05-10-2010, 11:16 PM

I have a Berg AE 410, and 2 Aguilar DB12's, and a Whappo Jr. To me a hi Fi cab sounds like a bass coming out of your stereo. The Accugroove whappo jr sounds clean, clear with excellent articulation of the notes. It sounds great even when sitting at a great distance from the stage. I highly recommend these cabinets. Truly one of my favorites.