Acme B1 or B2, Accugroove Tri12, or LDS?

revroy · #1 02-06-2011, 09:21 PM

I hate these kinds of threads but here we go anyhow since I have no way to try them. I'm looking for a smaller, rather hifi like cab that is even across the registers. I play a 4 string so I don't need the low B string, but I would like a solid low end. I also don't need real loud but will use it for some gigs - mostly acoustic musicians. I have a small head with 300 watts into 4 ohms. I'm planning to purchase/order this week. I think I've ruled out the Avatar 3 way because I don't want something that large or heavy.

So, I'm looking at either the Acme B1 or B2, an Accugroove Tri12, or an LDS 3 way with a 10 inch woofer or possibly one with a 12. Any observations anyone can make about the relative merits and deficits of these cabs would be really helpful.

basszillla · #2 02-06-2011, 09:28 PM

i dont know alot about most of the cabs you are considering, but i love my LDS. (my LDS is a 2 x 8 300w, & sounds "bigger" than i could of imagined for something that small, & i play a 5 st)

cybersnyder · #3 02-06-2011, 09:31 PM

If you're playing with acoustic musicians, a B1 would be great and easy to schlep.

IntrepidCellist · #4 02-06-2011, 09:33 PM

What is your price range? An AudioKinesis Thunderchild would be a good bet at 35 lbs and $700, depending on how small, light, and loud you need. It'll certainly kick with 300W running into it.

AMJBASS · #5 02-06-2011, 10:14 PM

I really like the Acme Low B1 cabinet. It has a lot of low end for a cabinet its size, and is very clear sounding. I regret selling the one I had, but I do have a Low B2 right now. Its a bit on the heavy side, but great tone!

tcald2004 · #6 02-06-2011, 10:21 PM

revroy · #7 02-07-2011, 12:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IntrepidCellist

What is your price range? An AudioKinesis Thunderchild would be a good bet at 35 lbs and $700, depending on how small, light, and loud you need. It'll certainly kick with 300W running into it.

I can't go quite that high... 6 at the very tops. I did find a used accugroove in my range. the others all come in there as well. The Thunderchild does sound like a great cab.

wcriley · #8 02-07-2011, 04:48 AM

Of the cabs you listed, I can only comment on the B2.
It's an awkward critter to carry because of the handle locations.

I sold mine after building a fEARful 12/6. The fEARful isn't much bigger, weighs less and, with a side mounted strap handle, is much easier to carry.

Soliloquy · #9 02-07-2011, 04:57 AM

An Acme B1 would be my choice.

I just sold my B2 to get two B1's.

I used one B1 with a fairly loud blues band on Saturday night. I used it with a Markbass LM2 and it sounded fantastic.
Ignore what people say about them being "power hungry", they're not. I didn't have the LM2 volume on more than about 5. It gave a very defined but warm sound, the definition meant that my sound easily managed to cut through enabling me to be heard.

Only the vocals were through the PA, it was just a small pub.

michaeln · #10 02-07-2011, 05:12 AM

With a 300w amp I would stay away from the horribly inefficient Acme B2. I used to play through two of them in a country band that really wasn't that loud, and I was never happy with the B2s until I upped my amplification to 1600W of QSC power amp in bridged mono mode. Lesser amps resulted in lots of farting out at moderate volumes.

I switched over to Epifani cabinets and was far happier.

KJung · #11 02-07-2011, 06:07 AM

Played and/or gigged all of these cabs (including the Thunderchild). They all sound and behave surprisingly differently, given they all use similar design goals (i.e., mid driver or big, low crossed over horn, and a high xmax woofer for full low end and improved upper midrange dispersion on stage).

Here's my take, for what it is worth.

Acme.... unique voicing in that this line of cabs actually does reproduce most of the fundamental of the open B string. Since each of the cabs (110, 210 and 410) sound virtually identical (this is the only cab line I've experienced that is able to be purely 'scaled up'... meaning that 2 x 110 sounds virtually identical to the 210, etc.), I would say this is probably the 'flattest' cab on the market, and one with the most extended range.

That can be a bit of 'careful what you wish for' though... that super deep low end can get a bit much on the gig without some sort of hi pass filtering, and the little 5" mid driver can get a bit overwhelmed when really cranking (i.e., the cabs can sound a bit dark in a mix... that 'flat' tone can become a bit unbalanced when you add room dynamics into the mix, and it is hard to dial in enough upper mids and treble to compensate for some tone goals). REALLY nice if you like an old school type tone, or play in sparse, moderate volume mixes (jazz trio's or whatever). Great company and service. Boxes are a touch heavy by today's standards (the only 'non neo' of the cabs you are considering).

Accugroove.... Not even sure they are still in business (something a bit strange going on there), but since you are looking for a used one, I guess that is a moot point. This line of cabs is quite voiced (i.e., the 112 sounds TOTALLY different from the 210, which sounds totally different from the bigger boxes, etc.). The Tri112 is one of my favorite boxes from them... much more mid mid present than the Acme, a bit brighter, much higher sensitivity (you don't need as much wattage to get up to volume). Rather large 112, but pretty nice for a mid present, organic tone. Those little soft dome tweeters won't do the sizzle very well but they have a nice, loud, even voicing that works well on the gig. Kind of like the 'nickel roundwounds' of cabs.... smooth, wide range, but not super goosed in either the highs or lows.

Audiokinesis.... my personal favorite of these 'super small cabs'. Small, based on the amazing LF line of Eminence drivers. Amazing crossover, and more similar than different from the Tri112... smooth highs, smooth mids, real but not overextended low (it will put out a real, true 50hz wump at surprisingly loud volumes). Since all these cabs can handle a wallup of power, the custom 4ohm LF 112 is a nice touch, resulting in a small micro head pushing the cab to full volume. Punchy, meaty in the upper bass (great for 4 string, good for 5 string), decent low B performance (although not to the fundamental). If you know you will only be using one cab, and enjoy one of the 500 watt or so into 4ohms micro's, I might consider saving my pennies and ponying up the extra hundy. Great company also. Duke is a TBer. I have a number of clips on my Youtube channel.

LDS 12/6.... yet another flavor of good. Bigger and bigger sounding down low than the Audiokinesis (similar to the Tri112 sizewise). Deeper, more forceful bass response than the Tri112 or the Thunderchild (given that amazing 3012LF driver in a reasonably large box), and a much more forceful midrange than the Acme's due to the super quality 6" mid driver used. Don's build quality is amazing regarding his woodworking and finishes, etc.. The downside is you will wait at least a few months to get your cab. The build I like the best (Don really doesn't do a stock version of this cab.. he is a custom builder) is the version using the Faital mid driver and the custom crossover built by his 'partner' Ralf Patterson, crossed over at 800hz. If you are interested, I have a clip up of this cab on my iComposition site (link is in my 'homepage link'... clip is listed as 'Deb's cab',the TBer who owns it...same bass and amp as some of the Audiokinesis clips). Don is an honest guy... great little company... maybe a bit 'loose' on hitting finish dates, etc. However, he stands by the product, so good, if a little chaotic service and support.

Hard to go wrong with any of these. IMO, the Tri112, LDS 12/6, and Audiokinesis are kind of 'different flavors of similar design goals'. The Acme is its own thing.

IMO and IME... one more data point for you that will hopefully help and maybe provide some discussion.

jaykay · #12 02-07-2011, 06:24 AM

Had the same choice and just picked up an Acme B2. Great cabinet. 600 bucks or so shipped. Not too heavy and fairly easy to lug around. Great owner, too.

Soliloquy · #13 02-07-2011, 07:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by michaeln

With a 300w amp I would stay away from the horribly inefficient Acme B2. I used to play through two of them in a country band that really wasn't that loud, and I was never happy with the B2s until I upped my amplification to 1600W of QSC power amp in bridged mono mode. Lesser amps resulted in lots of farting out at moderate volumes.

I switched over to Epifani cabinets and was far happier.

I have never, ever had that problem. I had an 8 ohm B2 for about two years. I used it either with an EA iAmp 500 or a MB LM2. The sound was always perfect.
I only switched to an Acme B1 due to the size, and the fact that I wanted a 4 ohm load for my amp. I can now use either one or two cabs, depending on the gig size.

michaeln · #14 02-07-2011, 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soliloquy

I have never, ever had that problem.

I cannot begin to express how happy I am for you!

tombowlus · #15 02-07-2011, 07:25 AM

Considering what you are after, I'll give a +1 to the fEarful 12/6 recommendation. If you have wood-working skills/tools or know someone who does, this would be a killer option, IME/IMHO.

If you don't want to go down this road, then an LDS 12/6 could be a very nice option (since Duke's cab is out of your price range). If you have never played an Acme, it would be very cool if you could check one out. They do go very deep, and they are not super efficient, but in the right situation with the right amp, they can sound very impressive. However, as Ken pointed out, sometimes the starts are out of alignment, as well.

If you can find one used, another great option is the Bergantino AE112. Or perhaps a GK Neo112-II, which is quite affordable, new. I am not a fan of the Tri112L, personally. I really do love the Tri115L, though, and it's a bit bigger, but not much more weight. I would avoid the Tri210L, though, as it sounds very muddy and overly big down low.

Tom.

AMJBASS · #16 02-07-2011, 08:14 AM

The Acme is not the most efficient, but I would agree that its a little overblown with the wattage needed. Mine crushes with a Markbass LMIII. 300 watts should be fine. I guess YMMV, but my experience has been positive. Agreed with KJungs comments as well... I think if you are using the Acme in a more dense mix it may not be exactly what you want, but in an acoustic situation, or a Jazz setting they are terrific sounding cabinets.

michaeln · #17 02-07-2011, 08:18 AM

Andy of Acme suggests 350W minimum.

From http://www.acmebass.com , about the Low B II:

"High power handling. 350W RMS is a good starting point due to the relatively low efficiency of the cabinet. 500W RMS is ideal. The more power, the better the sound. (Within reason - It's only a 2x10"!)"

revroy · #18 02-07-2011, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tombowlus

I am not a fan of the Tri112L, personally. I really do love the Tri115L, though, and it's a bit bigger, but not much more weight. I would avoid the Tri210L, though, as it sounds very muddy and overly big down low.

Tom.

What is it, Tom, that you don't like about the Tri112L?

tombowlus · #19 02-07-2011, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by revroy

What is it, Tom, that you don't like about the Tri112L?

I felt that it was rather lacking in both the lows and the highs. Granted, you could get it to sound quite nice with EQ, but the Tri115L isn't that much bigger, and to my ears, it sounded much better.

KJung · #20 02-07-2011, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tombowlus

I felt that it was rather lacking in both the lows and the highs. Granted, you could get it to sound quite nice with EQ, but the Tri115L isn't that much bigger, and to my ears, it sounded much better.

I would agree here. Per my tonal description above, the Tri112 has a STRONG midrange voicing, and a very polite top end... more like a very good one way cab with better midrange dispersion. The Tri115L is wider on the low end and smoother in the mids. It is a bit larger though... enough to probably move it out of contention for the 'small cab' set.